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Looking for instrument ideas

Postby MartyNeilan » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:21 am

I may be looking for something a little larger (not necessarily too much louder, but fatter/thicker) than a 186 but nothing huge. Rotors preferred. Low register must “pop” like a 186 or a Thor. BBb or CC doesn’t matter.
Open to any suggestions, but price is a major consideration.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby hrender » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:55 pm

hal.

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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby k001k47 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:27 pm

Dan has a Marzan rotor CC listed on his site right now for a nice price.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby windshieldbug » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:01 pm

k001k47 wrote:Dan has a Marzan rotor CC listed on his site right now for a nice price.


I love mine!
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby Tom » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:29 pm

Miraphone 188? Used?
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby bort » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:38 pm

Well, a 187 or 188 sound like obvious choices, if budget allows.

The Marzan is a whole lot bigger than a 186... but it would be hard to get "more tuba" than this... in CC... for much less than $3k. That is, as long as you're cool with 4 valves.

For BBb, there will likely be more options, and perhaps lower prices. Consider looking at German eBay or Uwe Schneider's website for used BBb tubas -- likely to find a good combination of "bigger", BBb, and lower price, given the abundance of rotary BBb tubas over there.

Possible you might find a good MW20 or MW25 here as well. I find that both of those (particularly the 25) seem to have a darker sound than the 186 that takes more before it breaks up.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby Doc » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:49 pm

bort wrote:MW25 here as well. I find that both of those (particularly the 25) seem to have a darker sound than the 186 that takes more before it breaks up.


Check with Joe about the Packer model that emulates the MW25.
All that, plus $8.00, will get you a venti at Starbucks.
Or in my case, a large can of Folgers.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby k001k47 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:33 pm

Doc wrote:
bort wrote:MW25 here as well. I find that both of those (particularly the 25) seem to have a darker sound than the 186 that takes more before it breaks up.


Check with Joe about the Packer model that emulates the MW25.


Or that other copy. :mrgreen:
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby the elephant » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:28 pm

Meinl-Weston 32 - CC, 5 valves, 186 size with a sound more like a 188, reasonable intonation, don't fetch too much on the used market. BUT there are not that many on the market to begin with. Heavy, built like a tank.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby Ken Herrick » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:31 pm

the elephant wrote:Meinl-Weston 32 - CC, 5 valves, 186 size with a sound more like a 188, reasonable intonation, don't fetch too much on the used market. BUT there are not that many on the market to begin with. Heavy, built like a tank.


Definitely worth considering.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby bort » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:32 pm

The MW Bell model is actually surprising to me... like a 186 that can "handle more", despite the smaller bore
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby toobagrowl » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:47 pm

the elephant wrote:Meinl-Weston 32 - CC, 5 valves, 186 size with a sound more like a 188, reasonable intonation, don't fetch too much on the used market. BUT there are not that many on the market to begin with. Heavy, built like a tank.


Been a while since I played those, but the M-W 32 (to me) sounded sweeter and darker; while the 188 is just a slightly bigger version of the 186. They are great, as is the M-W 25 BBb :tuba:
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby EdFirth » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:50 pm

Cerveny makes a fairly big C, I think the model is 601. Vertical tuning slide, great ergonomics, .835 bore. I owned two over the years and a guy had one when I first came to Florida that were great. I have played some since that had a crappy low G(which none of the others I had played had) but a good one is pretty amazing. If you could find a used one, and I've seen them on here, that might be what you're looking for. Good luck, Ed
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby k001k47 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:17 pm

bort wrote:The MW Bell model is actually surprising to me... like a 186 that can "handle more", despite the smaller bore


I do miss one I owned , but I don't know where it is now. . . Division of Getzen engraving, had all valves vented, and updated linkages. A bit more presence and carrying power than a 186 in ensembles, but playing in the low end had a learning curve. I remember going from a Rose Orchestra to a blokpiece symphony, and it opened up noticeably.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby Bob Kolada » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:10 pm

Miraphone 191, crazy low register!
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby MartyNeilan » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:14 am

bort wrote:The MW Bell model is actually surprising to me... like a 186 that can "handle more", despite the smaller bore

I have been keeping my eye open for these - I just love the sound they make. They vary considerably, and are also usually out of my budget.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby bort » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:49 am

Marty, there is one at BBC, and a less expensive one at Dillon music right now.

What is your budget?
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby MartyNeilan » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:27 pm

bort wrote:Marty, there is one at BBC, and a less expensive one at Dillon music right now.

What is your budget?

About 2 grand and under. Kinda rules out a lot of things.
Surprisingly enough, a goldbrass "Miraclone" does check a lot of the right boxes and keeps getting better every year, but I am also looking as to what else there may be. The 188's that I tried (admittedly two decades ago) still had too much of the chainsaw/tearing brass sound that the 186 can possess.

And, I may decide to keep what I have now: the very big and resonant "BART" project and the Wessex "solo" EEb which is a very decent solo, quintet, and small ensemble tuba. With a wide range of mouthpiece changes the "solo" EEb can cover a lot of ground from small-medium contrabass to F tuba, and doesn't prematurely edge out. There does seem to be a definite "ceiling" on the amount of sound it can put out, though. Delacqering it helped the response tremendously and gave it a little more color and punch - it was literally like unwrapping it from thin packing tape. From darkness to brightness on the solo EEb, I have been using the Warbutron-Neilan, Wessex Helleberg, Baer CC, Baer F, and Baer Beltane.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby Doc » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:34 pm

What about something like a Mack Brass 210? Generous size without being unwieldy, under budget, and Tom has a super return policy if it’s not the right fit. Or a 200?
All that, plus $8.00, will get you a venti at Starbucks.
Or in my case, a large can of Folgers.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby pjv » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:31 pm

The 191 could be a very satisfying investment. (I personally am not crazy about the gold brass versions). I noticed a huge playing difference between the 4v and the 5v (191A and 191B), the A playing much more open. I've spoken to a player on this board who has had both and disagrees with my assessment.
So you know. But we'd both agree that these horns can play anything.

The nice thing about the modern Miraphones is that their rotary valves are super light and crazy quick. The 191 is maybe a 5/4 but it plays like a Ferarri.

I just purchased a Hagen 496 which is about 90% the same thing as a 191, just unwrapped a bit. I've noticed my BBb playing is much more precies on this tuba. This has to do (I believe) with the clarity of the Mira sound but also the valve action. The valves are always "on time" so they don't get in the way of where my lips want to vibrate (does this make sense?).

Anyway it's a very easy blow. I can play longer passages on this tuba then say on my 30's 163 Alex (a smaller tuba which is also very free blowing horn). So somethings happening with this tuba which makes my work easier.

I did a lot of tuba testing for the last 6 months before I chose this horn. Visited various shops and factories throughout Germany. The new top notch tubas out on the market are bringing things to the table that many vintage horns don't have; better intonation, easier to tune but still produce a note with a good core, a more consistent sound quality across all the registers, better valves, and much easier to play throughout all the registers.

In other words, it might be to your advantage to wait until you have more cash so you can purchase what you really want.
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