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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:38 pm
by bort
MartyNeilan wrote:I may be looking for something a little larger (not necessarily too much louder, but fatter/thicker) than a 186 but nothing huge. Rotors preferred. Low register must “pop” like a 186 or a Thor. BBb or CC doesn’t matter.
Open to any suggestions, but price is a major consideration.


Marty -- how about this one?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89986

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:57 pm
by bloke
bort wrote:
MartyNeilan wrote:I may be looking for something a little larger (not necessarily too much louder, but fatter/thicker) than a 186 but nothing huge. Rotors preferred. Low register must “pop” like a 186 or a Thor. BBb or CC doesn’t matter.
Open to any suggestions, but price is a major consideration.


Marty -- how about this one?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89986" target="_blank


I believe I would probably (??) pick a fine example of one of those over (very specifically) a 186-BB.

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:57 pm
by swillafew
I have one on the market now, a B&S GR51 in very good condition with hard and soft cases. I am selling because I do my playing in small groups (F tubas there) , and have picked up trombone as a rival to the tuba for the main axe.

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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:18 am
by Frank Ortega
Go for that Sander CC that's on the market.

I'm dying to play the Rotary Conn Orch Grand at Baltimore Brass, too!

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:08 pm
by MartyNeilan
Frank Ortega wrote:Go for that Sander CC that's on the market.

Frank!
Good to hear from you, buddy. I have been ogling it, but my concern would be how well it would hold up to daily use considering the age. The massive BART project horn is definitely fragile and I would need something durable.

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:00 pm
by toobagrowl
bloke wrote:
bort wrote:
Marty -- how about this one?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89986" target="_blank" target="_blank


I believe I would probably (??) pick a fine example of one of those over (very specifically) a 186-BB.


I'd also pick the B&S 101/'Sonora' over the Mira 186 :!: I'm not sure it is much 'fatter' in tone than the Mira 186, but the B&S (and clone) is definitely deeper/darker in tone. And it has similarly good response, pitch and build :tuba: Oddly overlooked on here for other models, but there are a few players here who own/enjoy it. I'd seriously buy one if I had the extra money.

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:17 pm
by Doc
toobagrowl wrote:
bloke wrote:
bort wrote:
Marty -- how about this one?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89986" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank


I believe I would probably (??) pick a fine example of one of those over (very specifically) a 186-BB.


I'd also pick the B&S 101/'Sonora' over the Mira 186 :!: I'm not sure it is much 'fatter' in tone than the Mira 186, but the B&S (and clone) is definitely deeper/darker in tone. And it has similarly good response, pitch and build :tuba: Oddly overlooked on here for other models, but there are a few players here who own/enjoy it. I'd seriously buy one if I had the extra money.


These are solid instruments, IMHO. I’d love to have one. The price is right, and we all know the seller.

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:47 pm
by russiantuba
Marty,

What are your thoughts on a Cerveny Piggy?

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:14 pm
by bort
^ There's one for $1800 at BBC right now.

Image

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:03 pm
by Levaix
I considered mentioning the B&S stencil, but as much as I'm enjoying mine post-play conditioning it's definitely not bigger than a 186. (Disclaimer: going from memory when I sat next to a 186 player for a semester)

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:19 pm
by MartyNeilan
I think I have narrowed it down to a 5 valve CC, if that helps. Max price point around 2,000.
To recap - wanted - all the good of a 186, but with a higher threshold for "breaking" and a potentially darker sound.

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:19 am
by toobagrowl
MartyNeilan wrote:I think I have narrowed it down to a 5 valve CC, if that helps. Max price point around 2,000.
:shock: Pretty ambitious demand for that price....
That said, you may be able to get a used full-sized Chinese-made M&M or Schiller 5v CC tuba for about that price.

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:37 am
by MaryAnn
pjv said: "The valves are always "on time" so they don't get in the way of where my lips want to vibrate (does this make sense?)."

Yes. I noticed it particularly in changing to different (French) horns....the lever throws are different and I had to adjust to the different timing of when the valve was fully open so that I didn't clam. It was interesting. It's just one of those things that you adjust to.

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:22 am
by Alecgrinage
Alexander 163

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:53 pm
by MartyNeilan
the elephant wrote:Meinl-Weston 32 - CC, 5 valves, 186 size with a sound more like a 188, reasonable intonation, don't fetch too much on the used market. BUT there are not that many on the market to begin with. Heavy, built like a tank.

Just got one (actually a detachable bell 33.) Checks all the right boxes, and one of those horns that the more I start playing it, the more I like it. Been almost a year since my first post in this thread so I had a little more budget to work with.

Re: Looking for instrument ideas - Found

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:37 pm
by the elephant
Bravo, Marty! I hope you really enjoy this horn.

Tweaks to these to make the long-term keepers would include replacing the valve linkages if they are the early style ball and socket with the screw on the end that always comes loose and falls out at gigs. (The old "S" arms are the best but can need a LOT of attention to get them up and running quickly and with no noise.)

Mine had and some lightening done to the rotors by a previous owner. In theory this should work, but I have never actually noted a worth-the-effort improvement. It is probably that the rotors have too much contact area with the casing walls, but a really thin oil can help with that. I am not a fan of MW rotors, but mine worked well with 3-in-ONE on the bearings and lamp oil poured down the leadpipe every time I played the horn. It had pretty speedy and quiet action, but they could get heavy very quickly if not freshly oiled before a gig.

You can also swage the top bearings of the rotors if they are noisy or have horizontal play that you can see (and hear).

My favorite thing I did to mine here at the house was to use my drill press to center-drill the rear caps and install some set screws in the rear caps like on Miraphone tubas. This helped my 32 tons in the clank-clank department. I had a machinist friend copy the Miraphone screws for me, to include the tiny hole and the neoprene twig shoved through it to keep the screws from backing out over time. He did this small (but fiddly) job for me for beer and pizza.

Really scrub out the leadpipe. Take out 1st, tightly cork up the receiver, then, using some homemade, Rube Goldberg funnel, pour white vinegar — straight out of the bottle, not diluted — until the leadpipe is full to the valve. Leave it in there for about two hours if it is nasty, half an hour to 45 minutes if it is just dirty. Dump it out and then snake out the leadpipe vigorously. Look for red rot FIRST, though; the vinegar will eat holes through the porous copper spots. If you have red rot you probably will want another leadpipe.

If you like the results do this to as much of the horn as you can. (Mine came to me with a gunky leadpipe and cleaning it with muriatic acid at the shop as a part of a general immersion "flush and lube" job really affected how it played, much more than with any other tuba I have owned.

Simple Dawn detergent is a strong enough base for the vinegar. Note that the leadpipe must be as clean as you can get it BEFORE you use the vinegar. Vinegar is not effective against many things you would find in a horn. That stuff needs to go first, then the vinegar can dissolve "lime" deposits (sugar, saliva and food bits that have calcified) that it is so effective with.

One you have it under control where you can sightread stuff and have it be really well in tune you will have a 186 with a lot more carrying power and sweetness to the tone with next to no barking or harshness. It is not perfect, but it is really good and can be had for not too much money. They last for a long, damned time, too.

These are very good, oft overlooked horns.

CONGRATULATIONS!

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:54 pm
by bloke
MartyNeilan wrote:
the elephant wrote:Meinl-Weston 32 - CC, 5 valves, 186 size with a sound more like a 188, reasonable intonation, don't fetch too much on the used market. BUT there are not that many on the market to begin with. Heavy, built like a tank.

Just got one (actually a detachable bell 33.) Checks all the right boxes, and one of those horns that the more I start playing it, the more I like it. Been almost a year since my first post in this thread so I had a little more budget to work with.


If heading west (and have room in your car) bring it along and stop by for a meal.
I'm not looking to work on it. :arrow: I'd just like to see it.

btw...
I'm sorry I could not help you (years ago) with that crumbling bell on that 6/4 project of yours. I was just afraid that if I (or anyone) did anything to it, it would do little more than crumble even more.

Re: Looking for instrument ideas

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:36 am
by MartyNeilan
bloke wrote:
MartyNeilan wrote:
the elephant wrote:Meinl-Weston 32 - CC, 5 valves, 186 size with a sound more like a 188, reasonable intonation, don't fetch too much on the used market. BUT there are not that many on the market to begin with. Heavy, built like a tank.

Just got one (actually a detachable bell 33.) Checks all the right boxes, and one of those horns that the more I start playing it, the more I like it. Been almost a year since my first post in this thread so I had a little more budget to work with.


If heading west (and have room in your car) bring it along and stop by for a meal.
I'm not looking to work on it. :arrow: I'd just like to see it.

btw...
I'm sorry I could not help you (years ago) with that crumbling bell on that 6/4 project of yours. I was just afraid that if I (or anyone) did anything to it, it would do little more than crumble even more.

Thanks for the offer Joe! I went about 5.5 hours east instead for the MW and will be heading back today. I had “Village Tinker” Dan rework that big horn last year. He pulled a garland off an old 186 recording bell and it fit that beast perfectly. Still fragile, but holds it all together and the extra mass helps with sympathetic vibrations. The next time I am in that area I would love to stop by with the MW 33.