B&S/VMI 101 vs Miraphone 186 BBb Tubas

[doublebuzzing]

How similar are these tubas? Which has better build quality, intonation, etc?

[EdFirth]

As far as build,finish, and valves I think Miraphones win but as for tone I feel that it's no contest with the VMI 101 being much better. Ed

[Levaix]

Intonation on the B&S is fine. C and D in the staff are flat but that's about it.

Agreed with Ed on the tone.

In high school we had a couple Miraphones and a VMI. If I remember correctly the VMI's valves were always breaking. But that has more to do with it being a school horn than anything else. My Sonora stencil hasn't had any issues like that.

Also agreed with essentially everything bloke just said while I was typing.

[Dan Schultz]

As far as build,finish, and valves I think Miraphones win but as for tone I feel that it's no contest with the VMW 101 being much better. Ed

True.

[toobagrowl]

101 tubas tend to offer an "Alexander"-type of sound, and with really good intonation (with the only real exceptions being the same below-pitch 5th partial open D and neighboring C♯ that are encountered on 186 and many other makes/models of tubas).

^ This I feel that the B&S 101/'Sonora' and Mirafone 186 are pretty similar in size, build and pitch. At least comparing the vintage handmade models. The 5th partial open flat D is the only not-great pitch on both models; otherwise the intonation is very good. On some vintage Mira 186 tubas, the 4th valve tubing is fabricated too short (sharp), and you have the pull the 4th slide all the way to get it close to in-tune.
While comparing the B&S 101 and Mira 186, the B&S 'wins' in the sound category -- a deeper, more 'Alex-type' sound. After all, the B&S 101 is a loose 'copy' of the Alex 163 BBb

B&S made both the BBb and CC 'Sonora' models back in the day (1960s - 80s?), and continued making very similar 'updated' versions, in both BBb and CC under the 'Musica' label while imported by UMI (Now Conn-Selmer) in the 1990s - early 2000s

[toobagrowl]

I was getting the 101 mixed up with the 103, which I'm not a fan of at all. Apparently the 101 has better intonation than the 103.

I like both models But the B&S/VMI 103 has a different leadpipe, main tuning slide and more open wrap than the 101 model. I think B&S 'perfected' the playing characteristics and consistency with the old 101; while not as much with the 103. The PT-1 (which was/is very similar to the 103) is like that too. I tooted on a vintage PT-1 that played like a dream -- easy and buttery in every way, especially it's sound and response. And years later, I tooted on a later model -- it played pretty well and was still a good tuba, but not nearly as good as that old vintage model

Jinbao has offered a knock-off for quite a long time. I believe Custom Music used to sell it. It's an ok tuba, the Alexander sound didn't make it over to the Jinbao knock off, and - well - it features Jinbao valves/linkage/etc. I actually saw the first Jinbao 101 knock-off DECADES ago (prior to the 1990's). It arrived as a non-player (but crazy cheap...like $200 or something), and I was eventually able to make it into a player, and sold it to a school. They've improved TREMENDOUSLY since then (and also since the CM era, in my estimation), but (again) no "Alexander" in their resonance, and still cheap (c. two grand, shipped...yes?)

I worked on a China-clone 'Sonora' tuba back in the spring. It was labeled 'Infinity' on the bell and belonged to an elderly gentleman. I'm not sure if it was Jinbao or not, but the rotary valves & linkage were a disaster - worst I've seen; fabricated with lots of 'slop', very loose tolerances. And this was not an 'old' tuba.
However, the tuba played very well and had a very nice deep dark sound to it It felt as heavy as my 5/4 5rv M-W CC

[TheGoyWonder]

YUP.
Now put Miraphone valves on a BnS body, and you'd have a rig!

[Scubatuba]

The VMI 101 is still available as the B&S 3103 and shares the same hardware as the best B&S tubas. The B&S GR51 is a much better tuba than either the 101 or the 186.