Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

The bulk of the musical talk
Post Reply
User avatar
joshealejo
3 valves
3 valves
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:11 am
Location: Lima-Peru
Contact:

Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by joshealejo »

Greetings :tuba: !

Let's say the we have an instrument with a natural "dark sound" and I would like to put a satin finish (san blasted), lacquer or silver on It. As this will put a coat of sand and the later a coat of silver or lacquer... Dos that would affect on the playability or make It more "darker sound" on It? Also if someone sandblast It bad, can this penetrante the brass and make the silver or lacquer to blend to the metal? Or any other way to ruin the instrument?

Maybe some silly thoughts but I hope you master craftmen can help me and maybe give some recomendations if needed. This work will not be made by me but by a friend who is getting quite skilled in repairs here in Perú and It usually go to repair seminars to study, he is getting really good! This Also will not be made on any of my tubas but on an euphonium that have the lacquer a little tatty and I would like to make It looks good again!

Thank you a lot!

Best to you always,
Jose
Last edited by joshealejo on Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Some stuff
User avatar
joshealejo
3 valves
3 valves
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:11 am
Location: Lima-Peru
Contact:

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by joshealejo »

bloke wrote:no to all.
Quick and concrete answesr as almost always Mr. Joe! Thank you! :D
Some stuff
User avatar
Donn
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5977
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by Donn »

In case it might help, a couple close up photos of old satin finishes. Possibly both from 1926, the first is from the US
Image

... and the second from France
Image

As I hope you can see, the first hasn't been as thoroughly blasted. At normal viewing distance, the first has enough flat left to reflect a little, it just isn't mirror reflective. The second has a more frosted appearance, with the color but not the natural reflection of silver.
toobagrowl
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1525
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:12 pm
Location: USA

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by toobagrowl »

Donn wrote:In case it might help, a couple close up photos of old satin finishes. Possibly both from 1926, the first is from the US

As I hope you can see, the first hasn't been as thoroughly blasted. At normal viewing distance, the first has enough flat left to reflect a little, it just isn't mirror reflective. The second has a more frosted appearance, with the color but not the natural reflection of silver.
Maybe the first one was used/played more often? Satin finishes will wear down to 'sorta-mirror' finishes over many decades of use.
User avatar
Donn
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5977
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by Donn »

The less deeply eroded finish above is a Pan American Eb Giant Bass, and I am pretty sure it isn't going to win any awards for thick silver plating. The satin character is very consistent over the whole thing, from more to less exposed areas, so whatever wear there has been, it hasn't had a very obvious effect. It sure has been polished more. Before I took those photos, I did a little polishing on the second one (Evette-Schaeffer saxophone, Paris), for possibly the first time - and it wasn't very rewarding, because the black silver oxide from the area I was polishing would lodge in a black ring around that area, trapped in the rough surface. I'm not sure how one would go about polishing the whole instrument, and I'm not eager to find out. The smoother finish on the tuba is much easier to work with.
User avatar
Donn
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5977
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by Donn »

bloke wrote:as long as an operator is highly skilled, and can keep it evenly sparse
So not only is it easier to care for, it's kind of the deluxe finish. That's more or less what I've been saying. The satin finishes I see on modern "restorations" seem relatively cheesy to me, compared to the elegance of a light touch satin.
User avatar
joshealejo
3 valves
3 valves
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:11 am
Location: Lima-Peru
Contact:

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by joshealejo »

Very interesting conversation here. I like much both satin finishes. They both diferent but they both looks very nice. I Wonder why the old instrumentos have a more thicker plating. I mean I do not think the silver and gold were cheaper at that time! o.o

In order to keep in good care the satin finish what is recomended if silver and what if just lacquer - color lacquer?
Some stuff
EdFirth
4 valves
4 valves
Posts: 583
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:03 am

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by EdFirth »

I don't really know how it affects the sound but silver is a metal and isn't laquer like paint? So, in theory, silver plating a horn adds ever so slightly to the thickness of the metal while laquer is a coating of sorts. But theories aside, I get the horn that sounds and blows the best and as far as cleaning bead blast horns I have two and I just use Wright's Silver Cream maybe once a year and wipe the fingerprints off after playing.Ed
The Singing Whale
User avatar
Donn
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5977
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by Donn »

joshealejo wrote:In order to keep in good care the satin finish what is recomended if silver and what if just lacquer - color lacquer?
Do you have an example photo of a brass instrument, that shows what you're hoping for with a satin lacquer finish? A casual web search turned up a "Bb Trumpet, Satin Lacquer Finished (Hand Scratched)" - which I suppose means a brushed finish, with long scratches that reflect light kind of like a satin finish, in principle, and I suppose it's possible that lacquer could be applied over a sandblast satin surface. Just never heard of it happening.
User avatar
joshealejo
3 valves
3 valves
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:11 am
Location: Lima-Peru
Contact:

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by joshealejo »

Donn wrote:
joshealejo wrote:In order to keep in good care the satin finish what is recomended if silver and what if just lacquer - color lacquer?
Do you have an example photo of a brass instrument, that shows what you're hoping for with a satin lacquer finish? A casual web search turned up a "Bb Trumpet, Satin Lacquer Finished (Hand Scratched)" - which I suppose means a brushed finish, with long scratches that reflect light kind of like a satin finish, in principle, and I suppose it's possible that lacquer could be applied over a sandblast satin surface. Just never heard of it happening.


Dear Mr. Don,

Right now I am at work far from my computar and It is not posible for me to upload fotos with my Phone here but I Will do by the night. But I am pretty sure that I can diferencie the brushed finish with the sandblasted finish. I have se en brushed finish and silver plante, kind of brushed plated end wich I do not like much. But I have seen beautiful sandblasted gold lacquer, sandblsted black lacquer, and sandblasted silver endings. All look very elegant compared with the brushed finishes.
Some stuff
User avatar
joshealejo
3 valves
3 valves
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:11 am
Location: Lima-Peru
Contact:

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by joshealejo »

Here we have examples of sandblasted lacquer and brushed lacquer finishes! Enjoy 8)

This seems to be sand blasted lacquer finish:

Image
Image
Image
Image

And this seems to be brushed lacquer finish:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Some stuff
User avatar
Snake Charmer
bugler
bugler
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:34 am
Location: Schifferstadt, Germany

Re: Satin finish on a "dark sounding" instrument

Post by Snake Charmer »

Love the black tuba. Looks a bit like a serpent!
Post Reply