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163 CC Alexander with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:16 pm
by ssbolas
Saw an interesting picture of an Alexander 163 with a valve set up that I have not seen before. Most CCs are 4+1 piston or 5 rotor with the 5th being with right thumb. Has anyone ever played a Alexander with the 3+2 set up?

Re: 163 CC Rudy with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:49 pm
by bort
Did you mean an Alexander 163?

Can you share the picture?

Re: 163 CC Rudy with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:00 pm
by ssbolas
You are right, it is an Alexander.

Re: 163 CC Alexander with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:13 pm
by ssbolas

Re: 163 CC Alexander with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:46 pm
by Mark Horne
This particular horn has a very odd set up with a conventional right hand 1,2,3. LH1 looks to be a normal 4th (1-3 combo). LH2 looks to be a long half step which would preclude playing a low Db with all 5 down.

I have an old Alexander 156 F that is a 3+3 - the valve set up is the same, except that LH3 is the long whole step enabling all the chromatic notes plus an alternate pedal F with all 6 down. Having the typical 4th valve in the left hand takes some getting used to. It also practically guarantees that you will not be able to move slides when playing in the low range.

Re: 163 CC Alexander with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:24 pm
by bloke
All I could see were pictures of 40-bucks fake leather coats…?

Re: 163 CC Alexander with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:29 am
by TheBerlinerTuba
Hello ssbolas,

I believe the photos are from an Alexander 163 CC that was recently sold at an auction in France.
The setup with 3 valves RH and 2 valves LH are meant to emulate the same system used on Saxhorns in France. I have seen Alexanders in both CC and F, Hirsbrunners in CC and F and the occasional B&S F using this system. Usually the valves are tuned:
RH 1 = one whole tone
RH 2 = one half tone
RH 3 = either 1 1/2 or 2 tones
LH 4 = either a quart valve or a long whole tone
LH 5 = either a quint valve or a long half tone

Regards,
TheBerlinerTuba

Re: 163 CC Alexander with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:21 pm
by oedipoes
Indeed, probably made for the French or Belgian market.
I have played one, and know of 2 other Rudi 4/4CC's with the same (3+2 rotary) valve configuration in Belgium. 3rd is 2 whole tones and 5th a long half tone.
They were probably ordered to replace older Mahillon or Persy or some French brand CC tubas with 3+2 pistons in the same configuration.

Re: 163 CC Alexander with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:42 pm
by bort
Didn't Thein used to make a 3 + 2 piston BBb?

Re: 163 CC Alexander with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:20 pm
by oedipoes
bort wrote:Didn't Thein used to make a 3 + 2 piston BBb?


Don't know, but Rudi did... it was discussed here: http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24944&start=20
The original pictures got lost on Tubenet, but I found them on my PC:

rudy piston 2.jpeg
rudy piston 2.jpeg (4.64 KiB) Viewed 699 times

rudy piston.jpeg
rudy piston.jpeg (8.11 KiB) Viewed 699 times

Re: 163 CC Alexander with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:53 pm
by bort

Re: 163 CC Alexander with 3+2 valve set up

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:28 am
by oedipoes
And this is a Hirsbrunner in 3+2 configuration (was also sold some time ago in France)