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[IsaacTuba]

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[bort]

To paraphrase the usual advice: Don't be a professional musician because you want to do it, but because you can't possibly live with yourself by doing anything else.

Have a serious, realistic sit-down talk with your tuba teacher about career goals and aspirations. If you don't have a teacher, then schedule a lesson with someone, and spend the full hour talking instead of playing.

You are (or will soon be) 18 years old, which qualifies you as an adult / grown-*** man. You get to choose what you do. I see two ways to go with this, depending on what kind of person you are and your personal acceptance of risk. Many times, bigger risk is needed for bigger rewards.

1) Do what you want to do now, because you might not be able to do it later. A lot of people I know in the professional world didn't start their professional lives until age 30 or later. The first 10-15 years out of high school can be a great time to follow your dreams and make a run of it. It may work out. It probably won't. And when you are 30, you probably won't care if it didn't work out, because the life experience along the way makes you better. If you're a risk-taker, you're likely to be more okay with this than others.

2) Do what makes the most sense for the future. Major in something else so you can get a job. Pursue music furiously and passionately, but as a secondary pursuit. This is SO common, I can't even tell you... There are SO many great musicians that I have known and played with that are not professionals at all. And others who have day jobs, and still take gigs on nights/weekends. Music doesn't have to be a full-time job, or even a job at all. If you're a musician, it's in your blood, and you'll find a way to do it and make yourself happy with it.

I fall in category #2, for sure, and never regretted not being a music major. I took some lessons at the end of my time in college with Toby Hanks, and after some very kind words about my playing (which shocked me!), he asked why I wasn't a music major. I forget my exact words, but I said something like I wanted a different career path with more opportunity and stability... and naturally, he completely understood that.

[MaryAnn]

I did it in two steps...music degree, symphony violinist, lesson business, near poverty level, said WTF and spent my 30s in school getting an engineering degree. If you can cut it, a BSEE will make you a fine living. People I know with business degrees don't make much money.
Or...take up a trade, like plumber or electrician. Good ones are nearly impossible to find, you don't have to get immersed in corporate nonsense, and it will serve you forever.

[bort]

I hope you can view the challenge and difficulty as motivation, and not as a depressing reality. You're young and doing a great thing to plan ahead... don't be too hard on yourself. Following your dreams and having a backup plan is a really good and mature idea.

I see the idea of "I want to be a professional tuba player" similar to "I want to be an NFL quarterback."

Professional tuba players and NFL quarterbacks both exist.
There are more people who want to do these jobs than there are openings
Lots of people who want and work towards these jobs are not, and never will be good enough for the job (sorry, it's reality)
The world would be an uninteresting place if nobody bothered to try for these jobs, just because they are difficult to attain.
Landing one of these jobs is an extreme combination of talent, skill, hard work, timing, opportunity, and luck.
The people who get these jobs are extremely self-motivated, and are driven to do it regardless of what other people think or say.

You may do everything right and never reach your end goal. You will have to be okay with this, and be okay with meeting more moderate goals along the way, and doing what you need to do.

[IsaacTuba]

Thank you for the insight Bort, you've definitely helped me clear up the scope of what I plan to do. I think that I'll try to pursue music for as long as I can; I have many people who support me and know I can make it.

If not, perhaps I'll take up a trade. My construction teacher says I'll make a fine carpenter.

[windshieldbug]

https://www.phantombrass.com/single-pos ... am-Is-Dead" target="_blank

I survived by being a computer director of advanced systems.
And by auto racing. The racing almost killed me (literally!)

[dopey]

Personally I started a music major(not performance) and ended up leaving college to pursue IT. The logic at the time was to have a career in computers and play music for fun.

In reality I've had longer periods of not playing than playing. Primarily due to lack of time, or more specifically not prioritizing playing. Even though I sincerely enjoy few things more than making music with others.

If measuring by placement in competitions in highschool and chair placement in college I was "quite good", tho I always considered myself a big fish in a small pond(which became larger in college and would become an ocean after college yet I'd still be a fish).

I'm happy with my decisions. If there was anything I wished I had done, it of been DCI one summer. I think that of been a worthwhile experience, and it is age limited.

I also joined this forum in highschool - around 2004 -, the folks here give solid advice and generally mean well. It's interesting to return after years of not playing and seeing the same folks giving sincere advice still. -- many of these posters in this thread also gave me various advice back when this was a BBS and I was in highschool.

[Tom]

I don't think there is a high school senior anywhere that has an infallible plan for the future.

Perhaps it goes without saying, but you don't have to be a music major to be professional tuba player or even a "good" tuba player. Many schools have ways for interested non-majors to stay involved in music via ensemble participation, lessons, studio classes, etc. If you are having doubts about being a music major, that's something to take a look at. It allows you to pursue another degree program and play the tuba because you love to do it.

Picking your college major is also not a binding decision. Many students change majors. Some do so two or three times. You will likely discover that there is A LOT more to an undergrad music major program than just playing the tuba. You might hate that. I can tell you from my own experience that I was not very well prepared for what being a music major really entailed and my observation is that most incoming students were in the same boat.

There was a time in my own life where I could not have been talked out of being a professional tuba player and going to music school, etc. So, I went and did that and found the experience to be very eye opening. I went from something of a "big fish, small pond" situation to trying to compete (briefly!) with those 15-25 years older than I was with much more experience than I had. I tried to make a go of it but was realistic enough to realize that it just wasn't going to happen for me. I changed course (and my major) but was in an environment that allowed me to take lessons, play in ensembles, and generally participate in the same way. Instead of playing because I "had" to I was playing because I wanted to. Then, rather than falling in line with a set orchestral tuba player track, the focus really shifted to becoming the best player that I could be under my own circumstances.

As it is, I ended up working in the music business (in the orchestra business, in fact) though I do not actually play the tuba for my paycheck. Now I play the tuba when I want, where I want, and how I want. I don't earn my living playing it, but I enjoy doing it just the same.

Point being that things change and there are other paths to making a living that still make the tuba a major part of your life.

[EdFirth]

I don't think I saw this in any of the other posts it's what I did in 1970. Audition for a service band. Make sure your reading chops are at their best. If you get in you get 2 years worth of theory, lots of playing, and learn bass at the "whatever it is called now" school of music. Then you apply and hone these skills in whatever band you go to. It's different than college, you're working. Then you either re-up because you like it or because there's no work on the outside or get out with the GI Bill in your pocket(home loan money and school money) and continue in music or start a new major and always have the skills you got from Unckie Sam at your disposal for fun or profit. Best of luck to you. Ed

[happyroman]

I have a couple of thoughts. First, if you are to be successful in your pursuit of a career as a performer, you can't just focus on the final goal (i.e., I want to play in a symphony orchestra). Instead, you must focus each day on becoming the best musician YOU possibly can be. I read a quote by Joe Alessi the other day that really fits this situation. He was asked "how do you win an audition?" He said "You have to be brutally honest with yourself and know exactly what you can and cannot do on your instrument." Warren Deck used to say something very similar. "Figure out what you can't do and fix it." Arnold Jacobs would say "Imagine what the greatest player in the world would sound like playing this piece, and then go into competition with them."

The second thing that comes to mind is doing a double major. If you think you should get some additional education in another field as a back up plan, don't tinker around with a minor, go all in. When Pat Sheridan was going to school at Northwestern, he was pursuing a double major (a BS in electrical engineering and a BM in tuba performance). Now Patrick was obviously a very advanced player at that time, but even he thought it was important to pursue a double major.

[paulver]

I spent 35 years in education, and if there's one thing I learned very quickly in my career, it's................ high school juniors and seniors are forced to make some of the most important decisions in their lives, at the dumbest point in their lives!!!!! How is anyone "supposed to know" what they want to do for the next 35 or 40 years of their life? Yeah,there are a few who know exactly what they want to do, but like I said..... there are a just a "few." Sometimes you have a parent or a teacher, or someone else who inspires you to do what they do for a living, or maybe they inspire you to try something that you've been contemplating to try.

The up-side of that timing is that you get into the field early in your life. You will come to a point where you have to make the decision to stay in that field, or you decide to get out and do something else...... hopefully, with plenty of time left on the clock to make a go of it and accumulate funds and a good retirement. The time for you to bail might even come while you're still in college.

No field of employment is going to be perfect. They all, somewhere along the line, will have some sort of drawback. The trick for you, or anyone else, is to plan ahead for it, deal with it, find a workaround for it, and then, with your eyes wide open, dig in "with everything you've got!!!" Going into a profession with serious doubt already planted inside your head can be a sure-fire way to fail at it.

My daughter is going into music performance on french horn. Both my wife and I were insistent on her getting her degree in music education first..... as an undergrad, THEN get her performance degree in grad school. After taking her to several "heavy duty" music schools for trial lessons, observing teacher compatibility, and extensive discussions with these instructors and her regular horn instructors, we've reversed field and agreed to have her pursue her performance degree from the start. My wife and I have had countless discussions with our daughter about the music profession, as both of us are former music educators, and we have made her fully aware... as best we and her various instructors and conductors can....... of what she's getting into. Some of these instructors' job is to turn out professional performers, and they are very good at it!!! She is "all in" for this path. She is totally committed to being in a "major symphony!" We have assisted her whenever and wherever we can, and will continue to do so for as long as she needs our assistance, and for as long as we can provide it.

All that being said, plan "B" is for her to either get her BS in Music Ed....... if needed, to put food on the table, or to, at some point in the process, shift gears totally and go into "astrophysics!!!!!!" And yes..... she has the grades, SAT scores, mathematical abilities, and interest in astrophysics to make a "go" of it, too.

Make your choice wisely, follow your heart.......... but keep your brain right next to it!!! Never leave it behind!!!


Good luck in your decision process.

[Three Valves]

My advise to young people; “Never underestimate the value of marrying well!!”

[IsaacTuba]

I’d like to thank everyone who’s replied so far. I’m really glad I have an awesome community to talk to and ask about. I’ll certainly be around as long as I can, and hopefully after I finish all of this I can guide others as well.

[jperry1466]

I spent 35 years in education, and if there's one thing I learned very quickly in my career, it's................ high school juniors and seniors are forced to make some of the most important decisions in their lives, at the dumbest point in their lives!!!!! How is anyone "supposed to know" what they want to do for the next 35 or 40 years of their life? Yeah,there are a few who know exactly what they want to do, but like I said..... there are a just a "few." Sometimes you have a parent or a teacher, or someone else who inspires you to do what they do for a living, or maybe they inspire you to try something that you've been contemplating to try.

You just described me. Because of an inspirational band director, I knew that was what I wanted to do for life from age 14. I was good in high school, but I was the proverbial big fish in a small pond and wanted to be able to run with the big boys. So after getting my BME at a small college in Texas, I got my MM in tuba performance at Kentucky. I never intended to perform for a living but knew that someday I would have students more talented than myself and needed to know how to teach at that level. 33 years of public school band directing produced a number of professional players and college instrumental instructors, including one who plays with the Philadelphia Orchestra. I loved it and would do it all again, but I sure wish I could still play like I did in those days.

[AHynds]

I make a full-time living in music as a tuba player. Notice that I didn't say that I made a full-time living playing the tuba, but rather that I am a professional musician with a full-time job that also plays the tuba. In my case, I am a Sound Production Coordinator at a smaller public university in Nebraska, and while I do wish that I had more time to play the tuba, I will say this--I enjoy what I do, and I've heard from enough people who do actually make a living playing the tuba that many of the same issues with regards to time management are present even for them.

How did I end up with a job as an audio engineer, do you ask? I had experimented with recording technology in high school (older brother who is a musician inspired that), and shortly after starting undergrad my teacher (Dr. Jeff Funderburk, who I owe a lot to) encouraged me to take an open spot as a student recording technician for the School of Music at UNI. Through being in the right place at the right time and by being reliable and doing good work, I eventually became a "lead student tech" of sorts and took on more responsibility. My Master's degree time was basically spent just playing the tuba, and then when I went to my doctorate I got back into the field a bit (interestingly enough, my gateway back was through playing lots of works with live electronics). Seeing a need for freelance recording services in my area, I took some money from selling a tuba and invested in some decent recording equipment. I parlayed that into a little side job as a freelance engineer with a focus on live recording on location, and this job came up. I interviewed and got it, and here we are.

Never once during this whole time have I stopped playing the tuba, and in fact, I've recently been playing bass trombone as well. Yes, I'd love more time to practice and perform, but you know what, it's also nice having a steady paycheck! And that steady paycheck, at least for now, is more important for me than a tenuous and (let's be honest here) often tedious job as a full-time freelance musician of some kind. I could theoretically drop everything, take out loans to buy a Nirschl 6/4 tuba and an expensive F tuba, and practice 8 hours a day to try and get one of the vanishingly few orchestra and band jobs out there, but I realized a looooong time ago that that was not what I wanted to do. I also have a wife who is often more sensible than I am when it comes to financial purchases, and she would not be happy with that decision! I'm happy playing my (weirdly somewhat fashionable these days) Eastman 4/4 CC and my (definitely not fashionable) old Besson Eb tuba, and that's ultimately what matters.

My Master's degree teacher John Stevens once relayed to me the time he took a lesson from Arnold Jacobs. John is admittedly not a huge Arnold Jacobs disciple, but there was an incredibly important point in that lesson. After playing for a bit, Jake said something to the effect of, "John, you just aren't having any fun playing, are you?" That was a big turning point for John, and was something he would go back to often in our lessons. At the end of the day, that's what is important--you have to enjoy what you're doing with the horn. That doesn't mean that you should never challenge yourself, obviously, but it should not be done for negative reasons (i.e., you have to want to challenge yourself, not put yourself in a situation where you're being challenged against your will and/or ability). And there are plenty of ways aside from playing the tuba that you can make a living in the musical world, and if it so suits you, even more opportunities outside of the musical world. Learn how to be an audio engineer. Specialize in education. Get an ethnomusicology degree (boy, is that a field that is exploding right now!). Or go into copyright law and work for a musical rights organization. Get into the administration side of things and intern/go to work with an orchestra. If you're good enough on the tuba, you might even be able to sub with them sometimes! Of join the Army and go play in a regional band.

The idea that the only successful musicians are ones that make their full living from performing is completely false. This field is certainly big enough, if you decide to build up your knowledge and experiences in more than just playing the tuba. There are some teachers out there that will tell you to not split your attention and focus only on the big playing job, but you know what? Those teachers often have tenured paychecks, and that's the sound of their privilege talking. Do what is best for you from a career and financial standpoint, and remember always that that doesn't mean that you need to give up your tuba.

How can I make a living as a tuba player anyways? I'm a high school senior who already has this path made out, I'm not good at anything else. I'm about to go into college auditions which I feel confident for, but I don't know what I'll do after school.

What do you guys do? I'm considering getting a minor in something useful like business, so I can have some real life experience. I'm just worried that my future is going to be pretty depressing considering the severe lack of tuba jobs. My friends in my Youth Orchestra tell me I'm a great tuba player and I'll go far but I just don't know what to do afterwards.

I need some advice for the future. What's something I should do before I regret missing it? Please.

[Three Valves]

And another thing....

When music becomes a “job” it becomes tedious, you begin to resent it and hate your boss.

Just like everyone else.

I’ve always been in it for laughs, parties and chicks.

I’ve been in insurance or medical billing and accounting systems for nearly all of my adult life.

[tubasoldier]

...spent my 30s in school getting an engineering degree. If you can cut it, a BSEE will make you a fine living...take up a trade, like plumber or electrician. Good ones are nearly impossible to find, you don't have to get immersed in corporate nonsense, and it will serve you forever.

I fully support what MaryAnn said. When I graduated from high school the only future I could see for myself was music. I struggled through school for many years and I ended up graduating with a BS in nuclear engineering. I have enough credits for a Phd but not enough in one area! I've been extremely successful and feel like I've made a large difference in my field. I'm not trying to brag but I feel like I've had a great career so far. On top of that my pay is respectable. My music background has given me some rather great insights into my career. The technical degrees - plumbers, HVAC, electronics, ect... - also earn great wages and can be really enjoyable. We are currently looking for high quality electronic techs and they are not easy to find.

Like others have said, if you can't live without music then go for it. I watched a large number of friends get music degrees only to go on and do something completely different. If you do something different then let music be your hobby.

[ckalaher1]

Chin up and don't sweat it. Save your worries for when you're 38 and your back goes out. Don't limit yourself, and don't rush yourself. You don't have to make a decision right now.

Maybe think about a skilled trade apprenticeship or trade school. Lots of very personally fulfilling work to be had in those fields. You could still find a local pro for lessons a couple of times a month. That's a lot cheaper than music school. There's a lot of fine teachers and pros out there who enjoy working with people who put in the time and effort to improve, and they don't really care if you went to a University or not.

Read some books. Travel. Make friends. Be cool to people. Take care of yourself. Spend time with your folks. That stuff's all more important than a four year degree in my own opinion and experience.

Society separates the peas and carrots too much already. You don't have to fit into any particular box. We're all the same when we're pumping gas or mowing grass.

It's all conjecture though. Good luck with it.

[NeilMacQuarrie]

Whatever you decide to do, don't pay a single cent of your own money (or take on debt) for post graduate education (i.e. > BMus) in music.

[southtubist]

To the original poster...

You're young and can do almost anything you want in life- if there is anything you DO have (that many of us here don't have) is an abundance of time.

I was in your place a few years ago. Just because you're only "good" at tuba in high school doesn't mean that you can't become good at something else later on. I was only good at tuba when I was your age, and now I'm a scientist. I still have time to play tuba if I want, as well as participate in other fun activities. My training on tuba was excellent, and all my colleagues/teachers believed that I had as good a shot as any at winning an orchestra/military band job. I could play entire Bach Cello Suites, all the excerpts, concertos, etc... I graduated from a prominent boarding school and had gotten into the exact college I had wanted to get into. However, after a semester into my B.A. in Music Performance, I made the difficult decision to quit the pursuit of being a professional musician.

I went into forest management and am currently in the field of forest biometrics, which is basically applied statistics. It's a great job that's flexible on location/hours, and I'm always learning something new. When I finish my M.S. degree I will be able to live almost anywhere I want, and I should make more than most mechanical engineers make, but not quite as much as the typical doctor makes. Right now I'm getting paid to do research and take classes, which is common in most STEM fields for graduate students. There are only about 400 people in the world who are in my field, so there isn't really any competition when interviewing for a job. It's a pretty good spot to be in, but most people aren't interested in crunching numbers all day...

On the other hand, I know guys in the trades (construction, electrical, mechanic, welders, etc...) who make 100k or more. I worked with a helicopter pilot that made 350-500k a year in agriculture, and he had no formal schooling past high school except for flight training. Right now is a great time to be a pilot, and flying stuff is way cool!

I'd recommend that you learn some kind of skill that is in demand. It doesn't have to be trade school- some (not all!!!) college degrees can lead to a good job. You can do anything if you work hard enough at it. My current field is very heavy on mathematics, yet in high school I barely survived algebra class.

Heck, I know doctors who are talented musicians- they played in the top wind ensemble and took lessons through their undergraduate years, and then played in good groups through medical school. Once out and into a 40-50hr/week job you will have plenty of time (and money) to practice and take lessons.

To sum it up, pursue a career as a musician if and only if you cannot see yourself surviving as anything but a musician.