Martin 6/4 BBb

[bort]

Those are band tubas, Joe.

[SousaWarrior9]

I think most people are put off by the bits (not realizing they are smoothly tapered inside and not just sousa bits)
Also, the fact that most examples are top-action, 3 valves, and with recording bells. All things that are "out of fashion" these dsys, but none of which actually detrimental to the horn playing wise.
The false tones are great and the relatively small bore makes them much easier to control than comparable big horns.
But hey, as long as these horns remain largely a "cult classic" and somewhat unrecognized, that means I can still count of finding them cheaply when they come up. If they had the reputation the York's have, I may never have been able to afford mine.

[bort]

Are we talking the 3 top valve recording Martins, or the 4 front piston Martins?

I love the sound... but it's about 180 degrees from my own sound concept.

[Donn]

Are we talking the 3 top valve recording Martins, or the 4 front piston Martins?

... or maybe the weird-o 4RV ?


The story I've read here is that the older top valve models are particularly reliably great. Martins can be seen in either valve configuration with 3 and 4 valves, front and upright bells - is there a particular model/era that was only 3 top valves, bell front?

[SousaWarrior9]

Those two configs sound the same - to everyone but the player.

This

The story I've read here is that the older top valve models are particularly reliably great. Martins can be seen in either valve configuration with 3 and 4 valves, front and upright bells - is there a particular model/era that was only 3 top valves, bell front?

As far as I know, the mammoths were always available in any configuration for their intire history (3 or 4 valves, top or front valves, piston or rotor) even if all the options weren't explicitly listed in the catalog, Martin would make them if you ordered it.
The reason the 3 top valve variants are so plentiful, I figure, is just because the horns were expensive so not many wanted to spring for the 4th, and the top action configuration was preferred by the dance bands and similar ensembles that were so popular at the time.

[Ken Crawford]

I once had a relationship with a BBb 6/4 Martin/King Gnagey creation. The .687 bore through the valves didn't diminish the sound at all and no bits required.

[Paul Scott]

A few reasons. Upright bell models were more uncommon and Martin never seemed to go after the orchestra market. It might surprise people today that orchestra work was not lucrative until the post WWII era. The pre air conditioning season was short and orchestra musicians had to scramble for extra work. The big money was in radio and recording work, something the Martins were well-equipped for. Martins were built as "tuba=bass" rather than "tuba=brass".

That said, several years ago I was asked by Gene Pokorny to bring my trusty Martin BBb to Carnegie Hall for a play test by Thomas Keller. I believe they were gathering ideas for an orchestral BBb and Herr Keller gave the Martin a thumbs up.

If a Martin is equipped with a Fafner bell it can be quite orchestral. And as has been previously stated, the bits are best described as an "articulated leadpipe". When assembled correctly they are quite seamless and can be constructed as either tapered, cylindrical or in a venturi configuration. I find the venturi setup really opens up the sound of the .712 bore instrument.

[Art Hovey]

On more than one occasion Vince Giordano has knocked me out with the sound he gets out of his Martin, and it's not even his primary instrument. You've got to hear it live, with no amplification, to really appreciate it.

[MartyNeilan]

Owned one, loved it. Top action and bell front. Even if I had purchased one of the upright bells from Kanstul it would still face the “wrong way”.

[toobagrowl]

in tune...pretty sound...efficient...

...so why don't we see the full-time "I need a big Bb" orchestra guys looking towards these ?

Is the c. 23/32" bore size not he-man enough, are the tuning bits too sousaphone-esque, or what ?

That, and 'cuz they are not 4+1v York-style tubas The whole "York craze" is still strong to this day; just look at all the various 6/4 York-style/York-inspired BBb and CC tubas around.
Plus, Martin tubas just seem harder to find/more rare than other old American tubas.

[bort]

This one has been at Dillon Music for months:

https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-martin-bbb-tuba.html

No clue how it plays, but it looks like it weighs 100 lbs and is also very pretty.

[Ace]

Here's a clip featuring a big tuba. Is it a Martin BBb? https://youtu.be/Abx8cXvoPVk" target="_blank

Ace

[bort]

You're right.

It looks hard, too.

[Donn]

Had no luck finding any trace of such a thing online, but I seem to vaguely recall a Holton 104 that was like the 105 but with the upright bell. 105s that I see online (horn-u-copia, simonetti) are a lot like this (valve section) but with a detachable front bell (like my 109.)

[roweenie]

Here's a clip featuring a big tuba. Is it a Martin BBb? https://youtu.be/Abx8cXvoPVk" target="_blank
Ace

That isn't a Martin as far as I can tell, they put their 3rd valve loops at the bottom.

I believe that is a York Model 91 6/4 BBb but might also be the Holton equivalent as I couldn't see the ferrules clearly enough to tell. Both put their 3rd valve loops up higher on that circuit if I remember correctly.

Definitely not a York (the 3rd branch doesn't pass through the top bow from behind) - looks like a Holton to me.

[roweenie]

I hate to say it, but I think we decided that the pictured horn wasn't a Martin (valve cluster is set too low, Martins had the valves much higher), but rather a Holton 105 (sort of the predecessor to the 345.

But, Bloke's point still holds true (in my opinion).

This also looks like Holton, and I think the giveaway is the top wrap of the 3rd valve - I've only seen that odd set-up on Holtons....

[roughrider]

Here's a clip featuring a big tuba. Is it a Martin BBb? https://youtu.be/Abx8cXvoPVk" target="_blank" target="_blank
Ace

That isn't a Martin as far as I can tell, they put their 3rd valve loops at the bottom.

I believe that is a York Model 91 6/4 BBb but might also be the Holton equivalent as I couldn't see the ferrules clearly enough to tell. Both put their 3rd valve loops up higher on that circuit if I remember correctly.

Definitely not a York (the 3rd branch doesn't pass through the top bow from behind) - looks like a Holton to me.

That's my tuba!!

[williamp]

I sure am digging my Martin 6/4 BBb put together by Martin Wilk (Buescher valve set). Intonation and response is incredible for such a big tuba.

Hope the link works.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5QWbt ... sp=sharing" target="_blank

[Mike Ferries]

Correct you are. The valve set came from a Martin sousaphone with the same bore size as the 3 top-action set.

[Daniel C. Oberloh]

The Holton model 98 (CC) and 99 (BBb) were first offered in the 1950s and later were renumbered 345 BBb and 345CC.


D. Oberloh