Re: even cheaper valve oil
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:36 am
Is it to pre-heat the horn so you don't have to warm up as much?
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Re: even cheaper valve oil
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:51 pm
I'm interested in finding out how this stuff works, should anyone be so inclined to experiment with it.
Re: even cheaper valve oil
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:13 pm
The next time you want to keep your instrument warm between sets, just fill it up and drop a match!!
Re: even cheaper valve oil
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:13 pm
NDCompuGeek wrote:Is it to pre-heat the horn so you don't have to warm up as much?
Re: even cheaper valve oil
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:04 am
I didn't understand at least 85% of that (which didn't surprise me at allbloke wrote:I understand about 85% of that information (which surprised me, frankly).
Probably - if I buy a jug, my preliminary scientific testing will involve - once the foil is torn away - sniffing the opening of the jug (to see whether-or-not it stinks), and rubbing a little bit between my work-calloused fingers (to get an idea of viscosity).
)If you do decide to take the plunge and buy it, please let us know what you learn, as I too am looking for the least expensive way to make valve oil
Re: even cheaper valve oil
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:55 pm
The relevant points are explained clearly enough, it's just that there isn't much to be learned from all that.
I take it that most of the details are general info about the kerosene standards, not specifically this product. For lubrication, the only thing I get out of it is the size range C9-16. Comparing to an MSDS for Ultrapure Lamp Oil, that says C14-C16. If this product is just like the kerosene standard, then, it's going to be noticeably thinner and more volatile. We don't know if that's the case, but I'm guessing C14-16 requires some careful refinement, and there's little or no reason to expect that here. Viscosity data would be a more direct measure. ultrapure says "2.4 – 2.5 cSt at 40 °C", and above we see 0.9-1.9 cSt, albeit maybe not specifically for this product. [ ... guessing 1 cSt is less viscous than 2 cSt, but could be the other way around for all I know. ]
The smell thing is also ambiguous - the hydro treating helps with those nasty cyclics ,but they don't say it eliminates them, just reduces them. Probably depends on how hard you go on it. I've seen people here claim that they have "Ultrapure lamp oil" that smells nasty, while I'm pretty sure no one would be able to detect any odor out of the stuff I have, so it seems to be pretty hard to nail stuff like that down. Maybe the best guess would be based on target application. Would smell matter, with the kerosene heaters this stuff is designed for? If not, then it's probably smelly.
I take it that most of the details are general info about the kerosene standards, not specifically this product. For lubrication, the only thing I get out of it is the size range C9-16. Comparing to an MSDS for Ultrapure Lamp Oil, that says C14-C16. If this product is just like the kerosene standard, then, it's going to be noticeably thinner and more volatile. We don't know if that's the case, but I'm guessing C14-16 requires some careful refinement, and there's little or no reason to expect that here. Viscosity data would be a more direct measure. ultrapure says "2.4 – 2.5 cSt at 40 °C", and above we see 0.9-1.9 cSt, albeit maybe not specifically for this product. [ ... guessing 1 cSt is less viscous than 2 cSt, but could be the other way around for all I know. ]
The smell thing is also ambiguous - the hydro treating helps with those nasty cyclics ,but they don't say it eliminates them, just reduces them. Probably depends on how hard you go on it. I've seen people here claim that they have "Ultrapure lamp oil" that smells nasty, while I'm pretty sure no one would be able to detect any odor out of the stuff I have, so it seems to be pretty hard to nail stuff like that down. Maybe the best guess would be based on target application. Would smell matter, with the kerosene heaters this stuff is designed for? If not, then it's probably smelly.
Re: even cheaper valve oil
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:34 am
Now we need to debate whether to use synthetic or dino oil in our engines... 
Re: even cheaper valve oil
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:34 pm
My understanding of synthetic oil, which is what hetman oils ect. are derived from, is that it does not gain viscosity due to contamination. Even oil that should be changed still performs almost as well as newer oil, while classic oil gains viscosity and loses lubricity.
On a side note, I feel comfortable enough with Hetman classic piston oil to run it on my model steam engines if I need oil in a pinch. Running on compressed air of course!
On a side note, I feel comfortable enough with Hetman classic piston oil to run it on my model steam engines if I need oil in a pinch. Running on compressed air of course!
Re: even cheaper valve oil
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:58 pm
For me, it seems like the key lubricant performance issues have to do with "phase transitions" - it does its job best in its liquid phase, as vapor not at all, and we don't want solids. I believe lamp oil is OK on this, but wouldn't mind if it lasted longer before vaporizing, and while I can't say I've seen it and strongly doubt it would happen with the stuff I use, there have been concerns raised about waxy gunk from lamp oil.
I've gone to a two step system, lamp oil after wiping on a very heavy automotive oil called "Hy-Per Lube", that I heard about here. It's in a class of products that are supposed to remain in the motor parts after the thinner stuff has drained off while not in use.
I've gone to a two step system, lamp oil after wiping on a very heavy automotive oil called "Hy-Per Lube", that I heard about here. It's in a class of products that are supposed to remain in the motor parts after the thinner stuff has drained off while not in use.
Re: even cheaper valve oil
Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:24 am
I have been using lamp oil that I could find here in Australia
https://www.bunnings.com.au/classic-uns ... l_p3340273" target="_blank
Works out to be about 17 US cents per oz. Cheap enough for me to use liberally. 10c a litre would be good, but happy enough with 17c.
I squirt it down the leadpipe after I play as well as using it (mixed with heavier oil) on the spindles of my rotary valves. I usually oil the accessibile bearings and ball joints every time I play.
Best thing I noticed was snaking my leadpipe and tuning slide clean. The green gunk easily came out and leadpipe and tuning slide looks really clean. I am assuming the oil softens that green stuff. Considering I bought my tuba used and it seeemed pretty filthy internally I am very happy with the tactics of the liberal use of cheap valve oil - the valves work without issue and cleaning is really effective with just a snake and a hose.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/classic-uns ... l_p3340273" target="_blank
Works out to be about 17 US cents per oz. Cheap enough for me to use liberally. 10c a litre would be good, but happy enough with 17c.
I squirt it down the leadpipe after I play as well as using it (mixed with heavier oil) on the spindles of my rotary valves. I usually oil the accessibile bearings and ball joints every time I play.
Best thing I noticed was snaking my leadpipe and tuning slide clean. The green gunk easily came out and leadpipe and tuning slide looks really clean. I am assuming the oil softens that green stuff. Considering I bought my tuba used and it seeemed pretty filthy internally I am very happy with the tactics of the liberal use of cheap valve oil - the valves work without issue and cleaning is really effective with just a snake and a hose.