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Does anyone have any information on the B&S 4196? I can't find much online. Years manufactured? Pros? Cons?

This is also known as the B&S PT-4P. I believe it has been out of production for a while (early/mid 2000s, maybe?)

It was replaced with the model 3197 (PT-20P). I believe it was to fix some intonation problems with the 4P (3rd and 6th partials), and also because the 4P was a difficult tuba to build. The PT-20P was intended to play better and be easier for the factory to put together. I believe all the issues were only with the piston PT-4, the rotary PT-4 was just fine, but replaced with the PT-20 anyway.

bort wrote:This is also known as the B&S PT-4P. I believe it has been out of production for a while (early/mid 2000s, maybe?)

It was replaced with the model 3197 (PT-20P). I believe it was to fix some intonation problems with the 4P (3rd and 6th partials), and also because the 4P was a difficult tuba to build. The PT-20P was intended to play better and be easier for the factory to put together. I believe all the issues were only with the piston PT-4, the rotary PT-4 was just fine, but replaced with the PT-20 anyway.

Is the intonation issue with the piston version pretty bad? I recently came on one for a great price, but am unable to test it in person.

PMAKH wrote:

bort wrote:This is also known as the B&S PT-4P. I believe it has been out of production for a while (early/mid 2000s, maybe?)

It was replaced with the model 3197 (PT-20P). I believe it was to fix some intonation problems with the 4P (3rd and 6th partials), and also because the 4P was a difficult tuba to build. The PT-20P was intended to play better and be easier for the factory to put together. I believe all the issues were only with the piston PT-4, the rotary PT-4 was just fine, but replaced with the PT-20 anyway.

Is the intonation issue with the piston version pretty bad? I recently came on one for a great price, but am unable to test it in person.

I don't know for sure. But I'm guessing that people regularly use tubas with worse problems than the PT4.

I owned a 4p many years ago, which I played through college. I don't remember the intonation being dramatically different from the 6p I owned years later, but again, it's been a long time. F at the top of the staff was quite high, but it was on my pt6p, too. In terms of comparison to the 20p, I've played both and didn't care for the 20p. To my ears, 4p had more sweetness to the sound, but that could have just been my familiarity with it. FWIW, I've owned many horns and it's one of maybe 2 that I actually regret selling. Good luck!

I’ve found the intonation to be quite manageable. It is easy to steer with only a bit of first valve slide (F in the staff) and fourth valve slide (C#) pulling. Works well in quintet and small symphony with just a careful choice of mouthpiece. I’ll keep mine for now.