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I’ve bean across some 4 valve CCs here lately. What are your opinions on them? Limited compared to a 5 valve?

Four valve CC tubas work well enough for me.

1) I only own very "in-tune" tubas that require minimal slide pulls.
2) As an amateur, that extra 2 pounds of weight a 5th valve adds the whole time I play the tuba, is not worth it for the 2 notes a concert it comes in real handy. I'll just move a little more slide on those notes.

Please keep in mind that the car I earned my driving license on was a worn out '62 Ford Fairlaine with a straight six cylinder engine and a "Three on the tree" manual transmission. I had to look and think ahead when I drove that. Kids learning to drive today have no clue beyond 'step on the accelerator and the car goes'.

What Matt said, except for the car part, although I understand his analogy. (I learned on a 62 Plymouth Valiant with push button auto transmission.)

Several famous tuba players made their living playing 4 valve CC tubas. Yeah, you have to move slides more, but I appreciate the less weight, and the more free response and possibly, better intonation. I know I've said this before on Tubenet, but I was weaned on a 1972 186 4V CC. It might have been the best all around CC that I ever owned, out of around 20. That, and an HB-1P, a 52J with the 5th removed, a BMB 4/4 CC, to me, played better than their 5 valve counterparts, whenever I had the chance to compare. I've owned other 4 valve CC's also, that weren't available in 5 valves. My CC sousaphone has 3 valves. Yeah, I miss the 4th just to end a tune on a low F.

I could certainly see, that if you have a major orchestral gig or you're preparing to audition for one, where the 5th valve would be beneficial, mainly for that low F. I've never encountered listening to a performance on a 4 valve CC for a recital, small ensemble, or concert band, where I heard pitch issues due to there not being a 5th valve. Good players make 4 valves work, in those situations.

Currently, I have the sousy, a 621CC, and a Gnagey CC, none of which have 5 valves. I also have my 1965 186CC, with the left hand 5th. I don't use that valve much. Sometimes, I even have trouble finding it at the last minute.

I had this very conversation about three weeks ago with Jerry Young. He plays a four valve Hirsbrunner HB1P and he described to me that his playing needs do not need a fifth valve however if someone is needing to play in the low register (Low F to pedal C) and on larger works like Prokofiev and Shostakovich then a fifth valve would be more necessary. I used to use a Rudy 5/4 CC with four valves and it played fantastic but my only beef was the lack of the fifth valve. It all comes down to the players needs and preference. I would generally prefer a fifth valve to allow for alternate fingerings and the tuning benefits that can come with it (like Bloke mentioned) but if I did not need it and I was looking into a four valve CC I would pick it up.

How many new CC tubas are available with 4 valves these days (besides special orders)?

Miraphone 186 and...?

bloke wrote:

bort wrote:How many new CC tubas are available with 4 valves these days (besides special orders)?

Miraphone 186 and...?

...the loved-by-all and bargain-priced YCB-621 ...??

And the Josef Lidl LCB-702 CC Tuba. https://www.hornguys.com/collections/cc ... 02-cc-tuba

bloke wrote:

...the loved-by-all and bargain-priced YCB-621 ...??

Please keep in mind that the car I earned my driving license on was a worn out '62 Ford Fairlaine with a straight six cylinder engine and a "Three on the tree" manual transmission. I had to look and think ahead when I drove that. Kids learning to drive today have no clue beyond 'step on the accelerator and the car goes'.

And before that kids walked, caught a bus or train, rode bikes or a horse. Things change.

Orchestral tuba players generally have the luxury of very little notes relative to everyone and can plan ahead. But if you play music where you haven't been able to rehearse the 30 difficult bars for months beforehand, or played it many times before hand or you don't have 3 minutes to get your slides ready for the next 10 bar phrase, or you find the other players tune differently to what you expected then more valves help.

shinytuba7 wrote:

bloke wrote:

bort wrote:How many new CC tubas are available with 4 valves these days (besides special orders)?

Miraphone 186 and...?

...the loved-by-all and bargain-priced YCB-621 ...??

And the Josef Lidl LCB-702 CC Tuba. https://www.hornguys.com/collections/cc ... 02-cc-tuba

And last but not least, the Alexander 163-CC:

https://gebr-alexander.de/en/portfolio- ... model-163/" target="_blank