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I would like to replace a crumpled bell on a 1960s Mirafone/Miraphone 186. How realistic is it to think I might find one? Are there other solutions I should consider?...

greenbean wrote:I would like to replace a crumpled bell on a 1960s Mirafone/Miraphone 186. How realistic is it to think I might find one? Are there other solutions I should consider?...

Have you had a repair tech look at it? I mean a tech who fixes things not just replacing with something new from the factory. Even if a bell is really, really crunched with some deep folds in the metal, a tech skilled with the dent machine/dent rod/tools should be able to get it looking pretty good at a more reasonable price than factory new. Sometimes, where the metal has been folded, a hole can develop but those can be filled in/rejoined by sliver soldering. And, yes, patches. The bell ring/krantz on Mirafones can present a challenge for a tech because taking them off and putting them back on takes a trick. Not a hard trick but a trick none the less.

Of course, you could get one from the factory and some techs have access to generic replacement bells from China which work but are much cheaper.
Perhaps you could post a few pictures of your bell and maybe the TNFJ can offer their opinions on its reparability.

Dan Oberloh posted a series of videos about repairing a tuba bell which show the process.:

https://youtu.be/cdal-VftHck" target="_blank

Contact TubaTinker. Scroll 2/3 the way down for options for bell replacements:
http://www.thevillagetinker.com/projects.htm" target="_blank

You can also use a 17" Besson New Standard BBb bell, as on my Bessophone, but you have to lengthen the main tuning slide to compensate for the shorter stack.

This one is for sale on eBay but not sure the condition or if he would sell it separate.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mirafone-BBb-4 ... SwfgBc3BP2" target="_blank

In my experience a bell has to be very damaged not to be able to fix it (including the bell krantz) unless you are interested in appearance. My Alexander's bell was damaged in a car crash around 35 years ago (a drunk ran a red light at high speed and crunched the bell, destroyed the car and broke many of my bones; but that is another story). Since I used to keep other musicians instruments playable when I was on the road (I always had a repair kit) I had enough skill to repair the bell. A side note, my friend Randy Harrison owner of Harrison Brass (a high end repair tech that works on brass instruments used in major orchestras) looked at what I did and said that I did a good job. I would take the instrument to a repair tech and have them assess the damage. You may or may not need to replace the bell but you should have an expert THAT YOU TRUST tell you what your options are.

good luck,
Mark

Seems like most of the time when I tell a repairman "i need a new...", they usually say "no, you don't".

So, I've stopped saying that.

Post a photo, please!

Thanks, guys!

I put some photos here. https://photos.app.goo.gl/auUvLWuS239XrXZP8" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

This is a retired school horn - made in 1967. It plays quite nicely with very good intonation. The low end is great but the tone seems to deteriorate in the higher end. The krantz also buzzes loudly on certain pitches. The valves and slides all work surprisingly well! My tentative plan is to remove the lacquer and have it ultrasonically cleaned. I will probably ignore the smaller dings and dents on the body and focus on the bell. The crumpling is pretty bad, there is one small crack on the flare, and there are signs of previous dent repair on the throat and flare of the bell. And, yes, seeing my tech on Tuesday. I initially assumed the bell was hopeless. But perhaps not?...

greenbean wrote:Thanks, guys!

I put some photos here. https://photos.app.goo.gl/auUvLWuS239XrXZP8" target="_blank

This is a retired school horn - made in 1967. It plays quite nicely with very good intonation. The low end is great but the tone seems to deteriorate in the higher end. The krantz also buzzes loudly on certain pitches. The valves and slides all work surprisingly well! My tentative plan is to remove the lacquer and have it ultrasonically cleaned. I will probably ignore the smaller dings and dents on the body and focus on the bell. The crumpling is pretty bad, there is one small crack on the flare, and there are signs of previous dent repair on the throat and flare of the bell. And, yes, seeing my tech on Tuesday. I initially assumed the bell was hopeless. But perhaps not?...

The reason why the bell krantz buzzes is that it has come away from the bell and, since it is thin, it buzzes at certain frequencies. When the bell has been crunched down (standing it on the bell way too hard way too many times), the krantz doesn't bend with the metal and separates. The krantz is supposed to be soldered to the bell so, when straight, it can be straighened and soldered back on. The crack in the bell flare can be silver soldered. Chances are, the tech will want to remove the bell from the body to do the work so it wouldn't be too much more effort to have the bottom bow removed and straightened. Of course, depending on your funds.

To give you a idea of what your tech can do, have a look at "Tuba Overhaul- How It Is Done" on Dan Oberloh's website. He takes a refugee from a band room in and gets it squared away. Dan is very good but many, many other techs are good also.

http://www.oberloh.com/gallery/gallery.htm" target="_blank

Good luck!

Jeff "Yeah, that can be fixed" Benedict

I just watched a bunch of the Oberloh pages. Wow, these guys are pros! That is some impressive work.

I could consider a full restoration like this, I think. My total investment in this horn, including gas for the long drive to pick it up, is $185. But some might argue that a minimal restore, with perhaps nicer bell work, would give me a great playing horn for small money. Either way, I am happy this thing came my way.

Yes. That is definitely reparable.

greenbean wrote:I just watched a bunch of the Oberloh pages. Wow, these guys are pros! That is some impressive work.

I could consider a full restoration like this, I think. My total investment in this horn, including gas for the long drive to pick it up, is $185. But some might argue that a minimal restore, with perhaps nicer bell work, would give me a great playing horn for small money. Either way, I am happy this thing came my way.

Dan Oberloh does good work.

Getting it for $185 including gas is a fantastic deal. I went back and looked at your pictures again and, with the exception of the crunched bell, it actually looks pretty good. When you have a tech look at it, you might want to have the condition of the valve assessed- condition of the bearings in the rotors, slop in the linkages, etc. With the overall age of the instrument, they might or might not need to be overhauled. It's your choice if you get it restored but you would probably have as much in it as if you found one that didn't need any work. You could get *a lot* of work done for $1000 and you still would have a screaming deal on a fine horn which plays well and looks pretty good. If, for some reason, you need or want to sell it, you could make a pretty good profit if you don't spend a lot on repairs.