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TubeNet Community:

Has anyone out there compared the very famous Miraphone 186-4U in yellow brass and gold brass? Which one did you prefer more if at all? I would appreciate your feedback and insights between them.

Sincerely,

Bavarian Fanfare

A few years back, there was a brand new 4 valve CC gold brass 186 at Dillon music. That was an incredible tuba. All of the best parts of a 186, awesome valves, and handled a little more input before breaking up. An excellent tuba.

For the price, there were a lot of other excellent options. But if you already know and like the 186, I think a gold brass version would be a sweet option to consider.

Gold brass tubas can look quite nice.

In a factory that has the output level that Miraphone does, the higher end/custom jobs are likely handled by veteran staff. That leads me to the conclusion that gold brass horns are likely better built examples coming off the line. For a volume manufacturing company, that could be significant.

A critical analysis of a low volume manufacturer, like Alexander, where the same dude/dudette might be building the yellow brass and the gold brass horn might be more useful. But even then, the tales of Monday/Friday horns used to be rampant.

There are simply too many joints, braces, and tapers along with sheet metal thickness to control for on handmade tubas to control for before poking at the brass alloy. Schilke supposedly found that the “beryllium” bells has less dropoff in sound energy than standard brass, but the “beryllium” bells were also remarkably thin and light.

Matthew Gilchrest wrote: Schilke supposedly found that the “beryllium” bells has less dropoff in sound energy than standard brass, but the “beryllium” bells were also remarkably thin and light.

The only other time I've heard of beryllium bronze bells was in some very hard to find Bass trombones made by Larry Minick. If he chose to use it, I would say that it definitely has some merit. Haven't really seen many other instruments use it.

BavarianFanfare wrote:TubeNet Community:

Has anyone out there compared the very famous Miraphone 186-4U in yellow brass and gold brass? Which one did you prefer more if at all? I would appreciate your feedback and insights between them.

Sincerely,

Bavarian Fanfare

I am pretty sure we were the first company that introduced the option of adding a gold brass bell to tubas from Jinbao and we started with the 410 CC tuba which is closely modeled after the 186. The gold brass takes a little edge off the sound and adds a little more warmth to it. This works extremely well with tubas that have a brighter sound to begin with but can be overkill on tubas that already support a darker sound. It was about 20 years ago I noticed the change in sound when I had an all gold brass and regular brass Alex at the same time, but what was more suprising was the lag in the response on the gold brass alex. When the whole instrument is made of gold brass there seems to be a difference in the response and I assume it has to do with the metal being a little softer overall. The way to go is just make the bell gold brass so you still get that nice warmth in the sound but keep the body regular brass for the quicker response.

What's interesting to me is the negligible difference in cost between yellow brass and gold brass (a few hundred).

When I bought my gold brass 188 (same vintage as the one Joe didn't like), I got to play it alongside a brand new gold brass 188 and a new yellow brass 188. They were all great. I think mine played the best, but I had already bought it at that point, so maybe I just wanted to believe that. (Joking, it really was a great horn. The current owner is very happy with it.)

mctuba1 wrote:

BavarianFanfare wrote:TubeNet Community:

Has anyone out there compared the very famous Miraphone 186-4U in yellow brass and gold brass? Which one did you prefer more if at all? I would appreciate your feedback and insights between them.

Sincerely,

Bavarian Fanfare

I am pretty sure we were the first company that introduced the option of adding a gold brass bell to tubas from Jinbao and we started with the 410 CC tuba which is closely modeled after the 186. The gold brass takes a little edge off the sound and adds a little more warmth to it. This works extremely well with tubas that have a brighter sound to begin with but can be overkill on tubas that already support a darker sound. It was about 20 years ago I noticed the change in sound when I had an all gold brass and regular brass Alex at the same time, but what was more suprising was the lag in the response on the gold brass alex. When the whole instrument is made of gold brass there seems to be a difference in the response and I assume it has to do with the metal being a little softer overall. The way to go is just make the bell gold brass so you still get that nice warmth in the sound but keep the body regular brass for the quicker response.

I just started playing three yrs. ago.(at age 67) I've auditioned lots of instruments in that time. I do have a music degree and taught H.S. choirs for 15 years before being demoted to administration. I believe I have a pretty good ear and I tend to like a warm sounding horn. Whenever I auditioned a horn with a gold brass bell, I liked what I heard over the lacquer horns. This includes euphoniums, baritones and, now, a Mack Brass, gold brass bell, 410 tuba. It was a slight difference, but noticeable.

I play in 4 community bands now and have been complemented on the tone I get from the Mack Brass. I believe I made the right choice.

If Tom would ever offer a horn based on a 188, I may be the first in line.

Be Well, KKoro

Tom McGrady wrote:

I am pretty sure we were the first company that introduced the option of adding a gold brass bell to tubas from Jinbao and we started with the 410 CC tuba which is closely modeled after the 186. The gold brass takes a little edge off the sound and adds a little more warmth to it. This works extremely well with tubas that have a brighter sound to begin with but can be overkill on tubas that already support a darker sound.

Gold brass is a softer metal than yellow brass because of a higher copper content. Because it is slightly softer, it takes the edge off of the sound as volume increases and produces a more "mellow" sound at softer dynamic levels. The trade-off is that it may not project as well as yellow brass. Years ago, one of my French horn customers in a major east coast orchestra wanted to test drive a rose (gold) brass Conn 8D horn. The 8D has a very large bell throat and naturally produces a darker sound. The 8D was originally only made in nickel silver, one of the hardest metals used for brass instrument manufacturing. When Conn became a part of the United Musical Instrument Corporation in Cleveland, they began to produce the Conn 8D in yellow brass and rose brass in addition to nickel silver. I told my client that he may have a hard time projecting the sound of a large throated rose brass horn over a large orchestra. His response to me was, "I can make anything project." Toward the end of his one-week trial period, he called me to return the horn and said sheepishly, "You were right."

hbcrandy wrote: Gold brass is a softer metal than yellow brass because of a higher copper content. Because it is slightly softer, it takes the edge off of the sound as volume increases and produces a more "mellow" sound at softer dynamic levels.

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