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Which size large CC do you find your prefer? And why so? Do you find you use a smaller horn or Bass tuba more often when using the larger horns?

Just a curiosity where there seem to be more and more large CC tubas on the market.

Large CC tubas are expensive and popular. There are more on the market, because that's what will sell. Nobody is interested in making smaller CC tubas.

I like the idea of a 5/4, with the PT6 or Willson 3050 being good examples of what is meant by "5/4". That said, I've owned and sold both. I also had a PT7 (non York 6/4) and sold that too.

Currently finding the most happiness with a healthy 4/4. Reminds me of the Miraphone 1291 that I used very successfully about 15 years ago, but with a better sound. Plenty of power and room to push forward. Others will disagree, but I've always found it easier to get behind a 4/4 and push, than to have to hold back and lighten up on a 6/4.

The best big C to my ear while playing and on recordings was a Cerveny(601?) that I bought from Walter Sear in 1972.Vertical MTS, .835 bore. Really easy to play and silent smooth short stroke string linkage valves. Never should have let that one get away. Ed

I like having a separate sound from the rest of the brass, and the only time I've had a guest conductor stop a rehearsal and compliment me on my sound I was using my 5/4 slant-rotor Marzan CC with a Mirafone Rose Solo MP. YMMV, but that locked it for me.

I find the current impression amongst many that they "need" a 6/4 CC tuba to be rather curious. I lived through the "Firepower Wars" of the '80's and '90's and had hoped that we were done with that. At present I have use of the 1969 Rudolf Meinl 3/4 CC and 1951 Conn Donatelli CC in the shop. The Rudolf Meinl is arguably a smallish 4/4 instrument, but puts out a prodigious sound, and the Conn is what I'd call a healthy 4/4 size, and it will also "bring home the bacon", sound- and volume-wise. Both of these instruments exhibit a rich low range that is more easily accessible than what I've experienced on a number of larger horns, some of them famous instruments.
Since I've won more auditions and gotten more jobs with a Rudi 3/4 CC than anything else I've ever played, I must say that my favorite large CC is a 4/4 CC tuba. And, when I can get Stofer CC tuba serial number 006 completed, that will be my favorite large 4/4 CC tuba.

I go with a "speak softly but carry a big stick" approach. I can do everything I could do with a 4/4 B&S on my yorkbrunner now that I have many hours of shedding on it. I just like to have the option of unleashing the beast when called for.

Unleashing is fun. Holding back and navigating around it 90% of the time isn't fun for me.

I'd rather be comfortable 90% of the time, and have 10% more available to push when I need it.

All depends on the needs of the player!

bort wrote:Unleashing is fun. Holding back and navigating around it 90% of the time isn't fun for me.

It may be unique to my horn or others of similar quality, but I have found that in any large group context the big horns fit right in, never too much unless you are insensitive to the musical context. I have also used it in a brass quintet and found that it was useable, but not preferable to the sound of a bass horn. Thats why I moved from an F tuba to an Eb compensating horn. I have been happy to find that the large bell Eb is well suited for any situation which might make the 6/4 more stressful/higher effort than need be.

bloke wrote:

bort wrote:Unleashing is fun...

...as well an effective way of getting on a music director's $h!t list.
Most all tubas - with competent operators behind them not "unleashing" - are easily heard in a 70 pc. orchestra.

Years ago when I switched from an MW30 to a Miraphone 1291, the director of our band came over to me before rehearsal, noticing my new tuba.

He said "Not too loud, ok?"

Big and shiny can get you on the poop list before even playing a single note

Plus, the 1291 isn't really a gigantic tuba...

One that's in BBb.

I think the general consensus here is that a 5/4 is the best balance. They have as big if not a bigger sound than a 6/4 and you will have an easier time playing them in tune.

Check out the Miraphone 1293. When I was searching for CC tubas I played everything at Midwest and the 1293 was the best fit for me. Both Meinl Weston 5450 models were also fantastic instruments.

Doc wrote:I also liked the Kanstul 5/4 CC, although it wasn't as open down low as I would prefer. I'd like to try one with a bag of Blokepiece parts, as the sound was fantastic without being overly-pillowy or obtuse.

Two highly regarded tuba people have given me some insight into Kanstul tubas over the past year or so. I was told that particularly for the 5/4, they are inconsistent -- some of them are very pitchy, some have build-quality issues, and the ergonomics aren't so great for some people either. And some of them are pretty much fine. The main reason is that they just didn't make very many of them, and they didn't have the opportunity to run through enough production cycles to really iron things out and get to a better place. Nice sound, but takes some work to get the output.

Particularly when it seems designed to compete against something so well-designed and refined as the PT6...

bort wrote:

Doc wrote:I also liked the Kanstul 5/4 CC, although it wasn't as open down low as I would prefer. I'd like to try one with a bag of Blokepiece parts, as the sound was fantastic without being overly-pillowy or obtuse.

Two highly regarded tuba people have given me some insight into Kanstul tubas over the past year or so. I was told that particularly for the 5/4, they are inconsistent -- some of them are very pitchy, some have build-quality issues, and the ergonomics aren't so great for some people either. And some of them are pretty much fine. The main reason is that they just didn't make very many of them, and they didn't have the opportunity to run through enough production cycles to really iron things out and get to a better place. Nice sound, but takes some work to get the output.

Particularly when it seems designed to compete against something so well-designed and refined as the PT6...

Brandon Slone of the British Brass band of Central Florida sold me his about 4-5 months ago. It's actually the same one I played on seven or so years ago at Tom Treece's house and fell in love. This was among the run of the first three with the newly improved main tuning slide setup and I really feel like it's an example of a "refined" one as you describe and as to how the pt6 is have evolved (so to speak) in production. I'm pretty sure Tom did some custom work to it because this one is the most fantastic and fun horn I've ever played on. Every single box is checked for me*. My blokepiece rig is a great match for it and it's just so easy. Pianissimo is simple as heck and I feel like I work less then I did on my previous Kalison, which itself was a fine example of a much maligned brand. Opening it up it's so easy that I don't think I've ever had to give it everything I've got (yet). Intonation is on point. I only have to pull the first slide on two notes and push it in on one. I must have really lucked out because the bottom end is just crazy big. The season started for us tonight and after 2 minutes my director stopped and just gushed over how it sounded. Then after rehearsal he drove by me rolled down his window and told me again how good it sounded, and I don't even think that dude really likes me LOL. One of the basson players was like damn that thing pedals like a sumbish. every* time* I play with this thing I get compliments about its sound. Every time.

Anyway I'm ranting, but this axe just makes me straight up giddy. It really is a shame the way it ended for Kanstul and how this line really didn't take off in production to become one of the finest out there. But I tell you, mine is damn fine. Brandon, if you're reading this you're crazy for selling it, but thanks

If anyone is passing through North Central Florida, I live about two miles off the main vein highway through the state (I-75). You are most welcome to come by for a test drive. I'm pretty nice in the kitchen, too, so come hungry!

The Kanstul story is kinda sad. They put a lot of R&D into those Tubas, and at the time were the only U.S. company really making an effort to design and make Tubas. Now, unless B.A.C. decides to go into Tubas, we are once again without any real Tuba industry in the U.S. Looking back at the old King, Conn, Holton, Martin, Etc catalogs, it just makes for disappointment. All of that Tuba knowledge and experience, gone. Kanstul was also the only US company making a British-style Professional Euphonium.

Thankfully their trombones were mostly 'Mature' when I purchased mine, so they are both fine instruments. Far less issues to iron out with a trombone than with a Tuba though. I wonder if B.A.C. got the rights/design to the Kanstul C.R. valve. It's a great valve.

tbonesullivan wrote:The Kanstul story is kinda sad. They put a lot of R&D into those Tubas, and at the time were the only U.S. company really making an effort to design and make Tubas. Now, unless B.A.C. decides to go into Tubas, we are once again without any real Tuba industry in the U.S. Looking back at the old King, Conn, Holton, Martin, Etc catalogs, it just makes for disappointment. All of that Tuba knowledge and experience, gone. Kanstul was also the only US company making a British-style Professional Euphonium.

Thankfully their trombones were mostly 'Mature' when I purchased mine, so they are both fine instruments. Far less issues to iron out with a trombone than with a Tuba though. I wonder if B.A.C. got the rights/design to the Kanstul C.R. valve. It's a great valve.

I wonder if BAC bought all of that tooling? Apparently BAC bought all of the trumpet tooling and mandrels. I'm pretty sure that Kanstul had a lot of original tooling and whatnot from Olds and Reynolds. Plus whatever mandrel they were making replacement bells with.

Matthew Gilchrest wrote:I wonder if BAC bought all of that tooling? Apparently BAC bought all of the trumpet tooling and mandrels. I'm pretty sure that Kanstul had a lot of original tooling and whatnot from Olds and Reynolds. Plus whatever mandrel they were making replacement bells with.

I believe that some of the Staff at Kanstul also went to B.A.C.. Their former sales director is there now.

Still, I never have been able to get over the hubris involved in literally naming your company "Best American Craftsmen" when he was just out of his apprenticeship at ... Shires? I also recall that he went to Redwing, though none of this is mentioned in the B.A.C. website anymore.

Matthew Gilchrest wrote:I'm pretty sure that Kanstul had a lot of original tooling and whatnot from Olds and Reynolds.

Though not what they'd need to make an O-99 tuba, right? Bach got that stuff, enough of it to make some identical tubas in their "Mercedes" line. Along with a lot of other tooling, I'm sure. Not that it matters to me - I'm lucky enough to have a Kanstul tuba that's nothing like (and I sure wouldn't trade it for) anything Olds or Reynolds ever made. (Though I will say, it was easier to drain the condensation from my O-99 and Reynolds sousaphone.)

tbonesullivan wrote:

Matthew Gilchrest wrote:I wonder if BAC bought all of that tooling? Apparently BAC bought all of the trumpet tooling and mandrels. I'm pretty sure that Kanstul had a lot of original tooling and whatnot from Olds and Reynolds. Plus whatever mandrel they were making replacement bells with.

I believe that some of the Staff at Kanstul also went to B.A.C.. Their former sales director is there now.

Still, I never have been able to get over the hubris involved in literally naming your company "Best American Craftsmen" when he was just out of his apprenticeship at ... Shires? I also recall that he went to Redwing, though none of this is mentioned in the B.A.C. website anymore.

Every time I see BAC, I think Blood Alcohol Content.

bort wrote:
Every time I see BAC, I think Blood Alcohol Content.

Not necessarily all bad......…..