Orchestra Tips

[Levi12345]

I recently auditioned for and made it into the Evansville Philharmonic Youth Orchestra, I have never played in an orchestral setting and I am very excited; we are playing Prokofiev's Lieutenant Kije Suite, and Verdi's La Forza Del Destino Overture. I want to make a good impression on the conductor, so what are some dos and don'ts for playing in an orchestral setting?

[luke_hollis]

Listen to some recordings so you know the pieces, tempo, style, etc. You'll be fine

[Big Toot]

Congratulations! Playing in an orchestra is always an exciting opportunity.
I have never played tuba in an orchestral setting, but having played percussion in a couple, I can tell you this:
It's always good to have something to do during those long, long, looooooong rests between times when you are actually playing. The conductors that I've worked with have always spent most of their time messing with the strings or woodwinds. Non-string portions of orchestral music are really kind of boom or bust that way. However, that being said, don't screw up. I mean, mistakes happen, but don't let them be mistakes from where you're not paying attention. Also, know your part ahead of time dead cold (I don't really think that needs to be said, but still, just in case) so that you spend your time getting to know what it feels like inside the music, if that makes any sense.
Both pieces are extremely good, and I enjoy them both. But as for advice specific for tuba, I'm sorry, but I don't really have any.
And I apologize if my advice isn't overly helpful. I've never been particularly good at it.
Good luck, though. Let us know how you are doing.

[bort]

Listen to some recordings so you know the pieces, tempo, style, etc. You'll be fine

Always a good idea. I actually think playing music is NOT hard for this exact reason -- you KNOW what it's supposed to sound like! Your job is just to replicate it.

Show up on time, don't suck, don't play too loud during the quiet parts, and don't make any more contact with the conductor than necessary.

[The Brute Squad]

don't play too loud during the quiet parts

And don't be afraid to play out a bit at the loud parts.

From my own experience, I was so used to holding back a bit from band playing, because it's easy for a tuba section to be too much in a band (especially if there are more than two, and/or the band is on the smaller side). In the orchestra, you ARE the section.

[bort]

For the community orchestras that I've played in (some of which were quite good), I've found quite the opposite -- volume was never a concern. It's a much different concept of blend and section = "brass"... but volume and being heard were never issues for me.

[timothy42b]

You don't want to be perceived as rushing or dragging. That seems obvious, but notice I said be perceived, not actually be rushing or dragging.

Some orchestra conductors have interesting places in their pattern for the downbeat. If you are mostly a band player you might be used to "1" being at the bottom of the motion, sometimes called "ictus." But in orchestras and choral ensembles 1 can be literally anywhere. It is your responsibility to figure out where that is and be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

With some conductors, your rule is LUFU. (look up foul up)

[tbonesullivan]

For the community orchestras that I've played in (some of which were quite good), I've found quite the opposite -- volume was never a concern. It's a much different concept of blend and section = "brass"... but volume and being heard were never issues for me.

Yeah, for most community orchestras, they are going to have a shortage of string players, or ones that can't play super loud. Generally playing soft is much more important than playing loud, and making sure you don't cover up everything else. A tuba, especially a bit CC or BBb, is pretty much a bass generator, and it can wash over all the other sounds out there pretty easily.

The tuba player in my community orchestra plays a Yamaha 321 BBb tuba, and it's a BIG tuba with a big sound. I think he'd to much better on a smaller tuba, but he loves that thing.

[bort]

Community orchestras are funny: the brass/winds are the best players in town, and the string players are the ones who are available or want to show up.

Re: LUFU... other conductors demand to see you paying attention to them. More like LTFU -- look the... up

[WC8KCY]

Keep a sharp ear dialed in on tuning!

In bands, there's nothing but wind instruments drifting towards sharpness as they warm up from breath passing through them. In orchestra, there's also stringed instruments going flat as the strings loosen up from use. It's on you to keep pitch down to where the strings happen to be--and in a youth orchestra, that might be lower pitch than you have ever encountered in a wind ensemble. Be prepared!

[WC8KCY]

For the community orchestras that I've played in (some of which were quite good), I've found quite the opposite -- volume was never a concern. It's a much different concept of blend and section = "brass"... but volume and being heard were never issues for me.

Yeah, for most community orchestras, they are going to have a shortage of string players, or ones that can't play super loud. Generally playing soft is much more important than playing loud, and making sure you don't cover up everything else. A tuba, especially a bit CC or BBb, is pretty much a bass generator, and it can wash over all the other sounds out there pretty easily.

The tuba player in my community orchestra plays a Yamaha 321 BBb tuba, and it's a BIG tuba with a big sound. I think he'd to much better on a smaller tuba, but he loves that thing.

During my tenure in our community orchestra, it was arranged for me to use a YBB-103 tuba. I thought it was a ridiculous proposition to use one of these instead of a "real" 4/4 tuba, but upon hearing recordings of the ensemble, it was immediately evident that the conductor was absolutely correct in mandating a smaller tuba--the voicing was perfect for the ensemble.

[Mark]

If you haven't played in an orchestra before, you might not know that the tuning note is an A.

[bone-a-phone]

I'd recommend trying to sit between the bass bone player and a string bass player. Keep keyed in on those two instruments. Always listen for where your part fits. Sometimes you'll be with the low woodwinds. Know the music, and count, count, count. Community orchestra conductors aren't saints, so be ready to follow them (or sometimes even lead them) if they get off the pattern, or don't change meter with the chart.

Listening is important, but when you do that, you might start reacting to what happens instead of being part of it. When that happens, you're already dragging. It's just reflex for a conductor to accuse the tubist of dragging. I play with one tubist who is always ahead of the beat just to avoid that accusation.

Have fun with it. The Prokoviev is great fun. Italian opera can get a little ponderous, but your first time through should be fun.

[timayer]

Basic advice: Don't make any mistakes and sound beautiful, blended, and appropriate while not making mistakes.

Realistic advice: For the most part, conductors don't want to have to think about the tuba. For the most part. There's always exceptions. But as long as you don't stick out volume-wise, keep good time, and are within 10 cents of being in tune, the conductor will be pleased as punch. Because he won't have to think about you, and he can focus on the strings. Most of the compliments/thanks I have gotten from conductors has been some variation of I get the job done. They've never told me how impressive my volume is, how far I can get on one breath, how it's amazing that I not only can but do play the whole part down an octave, etc...They like that they don't have to worry about me.

HOWEVER

Lt. Kije is an exposed part. You almost certainly will get rehearsed on it. Don't take the notes from the conductor personally. There's no shame in not playing the way the conductor wants off the bat. But implement the notes you're given and don't make the conductor say it twice. For Kije's Wedding - memorize the part and watch the conductor. And while there are many parts throughout the piece that you'll WANT to play louder, sacrifice volume to keep the music moving.

[Tom]

Rather than zero in on details of the two pieces you mentioned or who to sit by or how loud to play, my advice to you is simple:

1. Be on time
2. Be prepared (in every context: equipment, wardrobe, knowledge of and ability to play your part, etc.)
3. Play in time
4. Play in tune
5. Keep your mouth shut

[enhite]

Those 125 bars of rests you sometimes encounter can be a killer. One thing I wish I had known to do when I when I came across a long rest while playing in an orchestra (many, many years ago) is to get a copy of the 1st violin part (preferably, since they usually play continuously) or perhaps a 1st cello part (if it’s easier for you to read) and follow along to help keep track of where things are and where you will need to come in. Best wishes!

[2ba4t]

As you asked ... Do what bloke says ... always.

But specifically for Kije - 1st movement - Play those ppp Ds like puffs of cotton wool. Bang on time with bones. You must catch that beat perfectly – mentally imagine you are playing a nano second early. At 5 +3bars sing out that E and move quickly down to the C and then lean on the G. It is the first beat of the bar. It is p but you are the only guy carrying the melody line. Play the notes full length but not sluggishly. Play the last G upbeat in that bar really clearly. These rules apply throughout the suite.

The lyrical solo is a real treat – sing it out like a bass nightingale. Slightest minutest touch of vibrato [Gene Porkorny sound] and first note of the bar gently emphasised.

Loud tuttis – if you have a big bi-radial bell flange which is likely - the timps, basses and bass drum will absorb your sound and no one will hear you however loudly you play [because you are not audible except immediately around you - don't kid yourself ] so … hit the low CCs etc ff then relax - then at the very end of the long notes increase your sound suddenly but stop instantly with the bass bone. Everyone will hear the tuba at the last split second because the rest are tailing off. Do not ever play too long.

Never exhaust yourself if you can’t be heard more than a few feet away. Listen to recordings of monster tubas played by geniuses in huge works. You can’t hear them in the fff tuttis. BUT you can really sound huge in other passages!! Do not bully them! ENJOY. It’s fun. I remember it.

Never ever ever play a note without listening to the others.

[Art Hovey]

The fun thing about orchestra playing is that you are the tuba section. Same is true of quintet playing and dixieland.
The long rests can be a drag, but it helps to pencil in cues. The printed cues are often about some instrument so far away that you can't hear them, but if you hear a trumpet entrance 17 bars after letter F and make a note of it (for example) then it's a landmark that helps you avoid becoming lost. Once you have those landmarks then you can stop counting and just enjoy the music, or even read a book.

Learn to read trombone music down an octave if you have not already done so. There are lots of interesting contrabassoon parts in the orchestra literature, and not many community bassoonists can afford a contra. Conductors I have worked with seem to like hearing them on tuba. (Contrabassoon and string bass music is played an octave lower than written.)

[mikebmiller]

Community orchestras are funny: the brass/winds are the best players in town, and the string players are the ones who are available or want to show up.
up

What he said. I quit both of the community orchestras I have played in for this reason. (Playing trombone). The amount of time sitting around waiting to play was just not worth it for me. Brass groups and wind bands are more fun. But have fun!

[timothy42b]

Someone mentioned being on time.

No, be early. Wayyyyy early, and here's why.

I've played in groups where the tuba shows up late or even close to on time, and has to drag that huge instrument through the already setup chairs and stands, making everybody accommodate him/her. They are blissfully unaware of how much hate that generates. You've got a large heavy instrument, maybe a music stand, tuba stand, your own chair, mutes, some people bring a cart, somewhere to put your case, etc. The strings are set up and they are frantically re-marking bowings for the umpteenth time, making an attempt to tune (sometimes pathetic, sometimes surprisingly good) and here you are doing material handling in the middle of it.

Tubas are not the only instrument guilty of that but just by sheer size they draw the most ire.

I personally feel a brass instrument should never warmup on stage and drown out all the strings, but I'm aware I'm in the minority on that one.