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i was wondering what the bell garland does for the bell...

for example... the 1291 and 1292 one has it the other doesn't...

what would be the differences in playing or any other things??

thanks,
E

The purpose of a bell garland (kranz) has been the subject of much discussion. Some say it stiffens the bell and keeps the bell from ringing. I agree with that thinking.

Bell Garlands are not some ornament that goes over a standard bell. I used to think that myself. In the early days, they could not roll the brass back around on a lathe like they do today. They could make a garland out of sheet brass or nickel. If you take the garland off a bell, you will see that the metal is flimsy with a straight edge. The garland holds a wire in place and gives strenght to the bell rim area. That is why a garland bell will sound and respond different than a standard bell.

Matt Walters wrote:Bell Garlands are not some ornament that goes over a standard bell. I used to think that myself. In the early days, they could not roll the brass back around on a lathe like they do today. They could make a garland out of sheet brass or nickel. If you take the garland off a bell, you will see that the metal is flimsy with a straight edge. The garland holds a wire in place and gives strenght to the bell rim area. That is why a garland bell will sound and respond different than a standard bell.

So it sounds like a bell garland is an older method of strengthening the edge of a bell, before there was an easy way to roll the rim. If that is the case, what is the benefit of a garland vs. not having a garland? Is it stronger with a garland than a rolled rim, what does it do to the sound?

harold wrote: There is no science to support the fact *that a bell with a garland sounds any different or responds any different than a bell without one - this is another of the "urban myths" of tuba playing.

I believe you are correct here, however I believe we have a topic for discussion which could rival that of silver vs. lacquer.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. The wire-in-the-rim style we're used to is known as a French rim. There are several other styles of garlanded rims;

http://www.usd.edu/smm/UtleyPages/Utley ... ssfaq.html

Note that the Miraphone-style garland is called a "Saxon" rim.

It seems that the garland business is more a matter of tradition than anything else.



(BTW, the same URL has a great section on valves).

yup

Jonathan,Charley K., and Chuck(G) bring sense into this thread. As did the very relevant original question.

Yet, I wonder why nobody tells the real reason for the use of garlands in German brasses, and not in French, UK, and US brasses:

The German instruments are built out of much thinner sheets. Even if the Germans are very good in cutting the sheets, there is a thinning of the rim material, when the bell is hammered into shape on the mandrel. That makes the sound break up very early in crescendos, which is counteracted by adding a stiff weight in form of a garland.

At least the Brits and USAsians used thicker material for their larger brasses. And then they used gussets to prevent the rim material from being hammered too thin.

This 1870 Besson Prototype Eb tuba is at the same time my oldest and newest brass instrument. It may be equivalent to the one of Jonathan, and it is a few years too old to be compensating. The bell is only 14" wide, but it clearly has a rolled rim, and the bell material is not thin, even if it is not as heavy as in the bells of my 1927 and 1928 Conn sousaphones.



Klaus

A link from the Osmun site. Not directly tuba related, but still telling in a general brass context:

http://www.osmun.com/prod/Schmid/Schmidbell.htm

Partially parallel threads have been up often also on the old TubeNet. I am immodest enough to let two of my own postings form the entries of your reading them:

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/aug2001 ... 66689.html

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/sep2001 ... 71565.html

Klaus

PS: As a response to enquieries I may note, that the most practical entry to my brass galleries is the link given in my signature. Not all browsers will handle links provided in my older postings in a productive way.

TubaRay wrote: I believe you are correct here, however I believe we have a topic for discussion which could rival that of silver vs. lacquer.

Have we discussed silver vs. lacquer before? Are you certain?!

Gravid wrote:Have we discussed silver vs. lacquer

Bell Garlands: Silver, lacquer, or both?!