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Hi all-

I'm beginning some research, trying to understand the basic differences between some of the top modern-ish mid-sized piston CC tubas. I previously owned/loved an HB2P. It wasn't a great copy and had some instability right in the middle of my dead spot, so ultimately I let it go. But there was some magic in it that let me focus a lot more on music and less on fundamentals.

I also previously owned a decent 2145 that offered similar point/shoot experience, but I always found the sound generic and let that one go as well. My sound standard tends to be more german/rotor centric, so I won't want anything particularly bright or cold, but pistons seem more forgiving to me these days. I'll look to optimize for efficiency and a gorgeous sound.

So - wondering how the HB2P compares to other offerings and looking for any guidance this forum can offer.
Specifically: how do the 2P and 21 compare? How does the Ursus relate? Is there anything else in this ballpark I should be considering?

many thanks-
Jim

Thanks for your thoughts! Very useful.

I’ve never played a Thor and included that on the list to get a feel from the group on how it differs. I don’t need a big horn, 4/4 should cover my needs, once I decide what those are. My baseline is HB2P, which I know well. I don’t love how (some of) these horns feel right below low C, which is a big problem for me.

Any experience w a gr41?

It has been a long time since I have played HB instruments, but I do recall the 2P being significantly more enjoyable than the 21. I recall the 2P having a gorgeous sound and being pretty easy to play.

I do own an Ursus and have nothing but positive things to say about the horn. Tuning wise, I pull the fourth slide on 2-4 combos and pull the first slide on 1-2 combos. Everything else is essentially point and shoot on the horn with crazy fast response in the mid and upper register. I even tried some MAW valves in it and thought the Ursus played better without them. The low range is very accessible and as easy to use as the low range on a Thor, but without the impact that horn is known. The bows on the Ursus are MASSIVE, so this is a horn that punches well above it's weight class in terms of size. It is very much a 4/4 tuba that plays as big as most 5/4 horns I've handled. I bought the Ursus while I was selling a 2145 and the Ursus was definitely much more capable in terms of volume and breadth of sound.

As for the Thor, this is another easy to play horn. It is very in tune and responds very quickly in every register. I have played on a few of these and have never been disappointed. I know these get knocked for having a one dimensional sound, but I truly believe you get what you put into a horn in terms of sound and never found that to be a factor when I played them. Ergonomically, the Thor is quite good for how large it is, though I do prefer the york style leadpipe on my Ursus that I have to tilt towards me.

If I had to choose between the two right now, I'd probably choose the Ursus if price were not an issue. It's more comfortable for me to hold, the tuning quirks are very minimal and easy to manage, the response is quick, and for me, I think the sound I'm able to produce is better on the Ursus than the Thor.

But as Bloke mentioned, do not base your purchases off of random internet people. This is my personal opinion and when you're spending this much money, you need to try the horns for yourself.

As for the PT-606P, I don't know much about it, but I have spoken with some people more "in the know" than me, and apparently it shares a lot of DNA with the Ursus. I cannot confirm this at all, just basing it one what I have heard from others.

Thanks for the TMI!

I am a big fan of minimized slide pulling, but I care EVEN MORE about having a reasonably consistent "feel" (and sound) across the range of the horn. That was the single fatal flaw of the otherwise wonderful HB2P I once had. Lots of squirrely action between low C and low G; I have a typical dead spot in the middle of these, and that makes for a fatal combination (for me). I would love an HB2P/21/equivalent that lacks this flaw. Is the Ursus that horn?

Maybe I'm just partial to the Ursus because I own one now, but if I had the opportunity and cash to buy any of the horns listed, I'd probably buy the Ursus again. And when I bought the Ursus, I played on a PT-6P, 1291, 1292, Thor, PT-20P, and a few others before making my decision.

I did not, however, get to play on the HB horns you mentioned and just had to go off of what I remembered of them.

That is great data - can you share what drove your decision, and what your priorities were/are?

I knew I wanted something a little bigger than my MW2145 that I was coming from. My initial thought was the Miraphone 129X series, but then I started thinking about financing and threw some more possibilities in the mix.

My first priority was to get something that sounded bigger but still had a unique sound like the 2145 did. I also knew I did not want a 6/4 horn. I am not playing in any ensembles that warrant it nor will I take any auditions where a 6/4 sound is a must. My second priority was something that responded a bit quicker than the 2145 did. The 2145 I had was a good horn and the MAW valves helped things out, but I still felt I was putting in more effort than I wanted for the result I was getting. My final priority was something with minimal tuning quirks. I don't mind slide pulling, but my Gronitz F tuba has some major tuning issues and I didn't want a CC that I had to mess around with and manipulate the way I've had to with my F. The Gronitz has an amazing sound and I don't intend to get rid of it, but it's not a horn you can leave in a corner for a month then expect to pick it up and play a gig right in tune.

I’ve played all three:
HB2p was ok but to my taste didn’t produce enough gravitas in the sound.
Ursus was bigger darker sounding but had a very opaque sound. I thought it to be like a four wheel camaro. I found it easy enough to play in tune but had trouble imagining which setting to play it in. Too heavy for BQ, not enough breadth of sound for large ensembles.
3450 was maybe the most versatile. Nice sound, good pitch and played bigger than its size.

I don’t play any of these because none of them made me want to give up my current equipment.

thx for the input - I'll be sure to play both a 3450 and a Thor before buying anything.