De-tarnishing

[Rick Denney]

And then you got your toilet bowl cleaners many of which contain HCl.

Not all of them. One I just used last night (for cleaning in the bathroom, of course) used phosphoric acid.

Rick "who thinks it did no better than the rest at removing rust stains embedded into grout" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

the original question involved brass, but will all this acid/ketchup clean the tarnish off silver as well?

Don't know about sulfamic, but muriatic will clean tarnish off silver, but leave a cloudy residue that will need to be polished off. The reaction product, silver chloride, is very insoluble in water and serves to protect metallic silver underneath.

I suspect that sulfamic will also work, as I believe it's the active ingredient in TarnX.

[Chuck(G)]

Rick "who thinks it did no better than the rest at removing rust stains embedded into grout" Denney

Rick, have you tried oxalic acid or sodium bisulfite on that grout? Either should work fairly well.

[Kevin Hendrick]

The last time I went to the chemical store to get HCI, I was told it's no longer sold to the public, but that I could buy Muriatic acid which was a little weaker solution. The label said 50% HCI.

So, it sounds like "hydrochloric" is "all (or mostly) acid", and "muriatic" is only "half acid" ...

[Chuck(G)]

The last time I went to the chemical store to get HCI, I was told it's no longer sold to the public, but that I could buy Muriatic acid which was a little weaker solution. The label said 50% HCI.

So, it sounds like "hydrochloric" is "all (or mostly) acid", and "muriatic" is only "half acid" ...

If I went to a chemical supply house and ordered HCl, I would expect to receive a cylinder of hydrogen chloride gas. If I wanted the acid solution of HCl in water, I would specify "hydrochloric acid' and either the molar or mass concentration.

AFAIK, "muriatic acid" refers to any solution of HCl gas in water. What's sold as "concentrated" hydrochloric acid is about 12.4 M, or about 38% HCl by weight. Hardware-store muriatic acid is about 28% HCl by weight or about 9 M, so it's not that dilute.

Of the common strong (meaning nearly-complete dissociation, not corrosiveness) inorganic acids, HCl is by far the least hazardous (this doesn't mean that you can be stupid, just that the acid's quite stable and generally, reaction products are relatively benign). Hydrochloric acid concentrations above 10% do tend to fume (i.e. give off gaseous HCl), which is why I recommended doing the mixing out-of-doors.

One of the classic freshman-chemistry experiment is to place a beaker of hydrochloric acid next to a beaker of ammonium hydroxide. Before long, a "cloud" of ammonium chloride (sal ammoniac) forms from the products of outgassing of both solutions.
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[Rick Denney]

Rick "who thinks it did no better than the rest at removing rust stains embedded into grout" Denney

Rick, have you tried oxalic acid or sodium bisulfite on that grout? Either should work fairly well.

Isn't oxalic acid used in CLR? I've tried that, with no better results than the stuff with phosphoric acid.

And I can't ever seem to get the Iron Out product (which is commerical sodium bisulfite) to stick to the walls and ceiling of the shower long enough to really work on the rust stains in the grout. It works fine in the toilet bowl and washing machine, but requires a long, wet soak.

It irritates me to have to deal with it, after investing coupla grand on a manganese greensand filter and a new water softener to get rid of the iron in the first place.

Rick "whose red-headed wife is inexplicably allergic to orange stains" Denney

[ThomasDodd]

And I can't ever seem to get the Iron Out product (which is commerical sodium bisulfite) to stick to the walls and ceiling of the shower long enough to really work on the rust stains in the grout. It works fine in the toilet bowl and washing machine, but requires a long, wet soak.

Sounds like you need a way to thicken it, or a "cloth" to hold it in place.

[Chuck(G)]

Isn't oxalic acid used in CLR? I've tried that, with no better results than the stuff with phosphoric acid.

And I can't ever seem to get the Iron Out product (which is commerical sodium bisulfite) to stick to the walls and ceiling of the shower long enough to really work on the rust stains in the grout. It works fine in the toilet bowl and washing machine, but requires a long, wet soak.

I think the trick is not to purchase water with your reagents.

TrueValue has something called "Master Plumber Iron and Rust Stain Remover", which comes in a plastic bottle, but it's pure dry soduim bisulfite powder. You could make a paste of that and apply it.

Similarly, the oxalic acid available at paint stores comes as a powder and can be applied as a paste.

Maybe that'll do the trick for you.

[Rick Denney]

TrueValue has something called "Master Plumber Iron and Rust Stain Remover", which comes in a plastic bottle, but it's pure dry soduim bisulfite powder. You could make a paste of that and apply it.

IronOut is a powder, too. But making a paste of it (which is also what they suggest) doesn't work all that well. If it's wet enough to stick, it runs and the stained area dries. If it's dry enough not t run, it flakes off onto my face when i'm applying it to the ceiling.

Rick "I know: bitch, bitch, bitch" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

TrueValue has something called "Master Plumber Iron and Rust Stain Remover", which comes in a plastic bottle, but it's pure dry soduim bisulfite powder. You could make a paste of that and apply it.

IronOut is a powder, too. But making a paste of it (which is also what they suggest) doesn't work all that well. If it's wet enough to stick, it runs and the stained area dries. If it's dry enough not t run, it flakes off onto my face when i'm applying it to the ceiling.

Rick "I know: bitch, bitch, bitch" Denney

Hmm, I wonder if you couild mix it with something (flour, cornstarch, Kayro syrup) to make it stick long enough to do its thng.

Alternatively, the paint stores sell a fabric that's engineered to stick and stay wet (used for soaking off wallpaper) that might help.

Chuck (Sorry for the OT, but it's the Heloise in me struggling to get out) (G)