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Debt is a tool, and like all tools, it can turn on the user. And it’s an expensive tool. Its regular use means that in one’s lifetime, one will have fewer of the things one is using debt to purchase, because more of one’s wealth will be transferred to the people who take the risk of loaning them money. We trade future buying ability for present possession.

There are times when that is a reasonable trade-off. In my experience, the perspective to know what is reasonable may be absent in the heat of acquisitional fever. But not always.

A couple of the tubas I borrowed money to buy thank me for taking the risk every time I play them. I ended up paying more for them, but that was a consideration at the time. It was worth it.

I wish some of my other heat-of-battle purchases had been so grateful.

Rick “learn to use a hand-saw before buying the power saw” Denney

At present, interest rates are quite low, which does minimize the risk somewhat. Also there are some retailers/outlets that have a 12 month "no interest" financing. This of course means however that if you fail to pay off the instrument in those 12 months, you get hit with all the interest for the entire item, so I would never recommend that for people who wanted to pay something off over several years.

Being a trombone player, I am spoiled. I purchased most of my horns over 10 years ago, when they were a lot cheaper, relatively speaking. Tubas then were cheaper but still far more expensive than a trombone. If someone is going to be studying tuba seriously, it definitely does require a good tuba, and if a good used one cannot be found, a new one is the only option, and they are expensive.

At least they aren't as expensive as things like Bassoons, Violins, Pianos, etc.

I always think one should do what string players do;
Concentrate on getting good enough that someone will "lend" you a Stradivarius.
Additional selling point: You are far less likely to forget a tuba in a bus or airliner overhead bin!

tbonesullivan wrote:... At least they aren't as expensive as things like Bassoons, Violins, Pianos, etc.

This is one of the reasons I'm playing tuba now. Finding a good playable contrabass tuba for $2500 seemed a lot more likely than finding a good bassoon.

anotherjtm2 wrote:

tbonesullivan wrote:This is one of the reasons I'm playing tuba now. Finding a good playable contrabass tuba for $2500 seemed a lot more likely than finding a good bassoon.

There are “good” bassoons!?

windshieldbug wrote:

tbonesullivan wrote:This is one of the reasons I'm playing tuba now. Finding a good playable contrabass tuba for $2500 seemed a lot more likely than finding a good bassoon.

There are “good” bassoons!?

Oh yes! I make exceptions for my bass clef brothers. Contra bassoons are even better!

Fun fact: most people I know who have a contra bassoon paid LESS for their wonderful used contra than their wonderful regular bassoon. They also generally make more $$$ with the contra bassoon as a freelancer. This replicates my experience with owning a bass trombone. I paid less for my Bass trombone than for ANY of my other trombones. Of course it is a Yamaha, and due to the constantly changing model numbers, older ones are very often overlooked, so I got a YBL 612 RII in GREAT shape with original case at just over 1K. At the same time dillon music had a used version of an earlier version of the 612 that was somewhat beat up for sale... for $1800, without the D crook. So yes I did quite well.

The problem is that finding a great deal is something that people often don't have the option to wait for. If you are going to college for tuba, and you need your own tuba, you need one relatively quickly. The used tuba marking isn't nearly as prolific as the used trombone market is, mostly due to size and cost. Also trombones are relatively easy to care for, and even an "overhaul" for a Bb/F tenor trombone isn't that much.

I have considered financing an instrument, mainly because I'm having rotten luck finding an Eb compensating tuba. I've been looking for a 70's or 80s Besson something, but they just don't show up this much in the states. I also was looking for a Yamaha YEB-631, and Tuba Exchange has one, but for $6500. Lee stofer has a Miraphone for around $4k, but it's got a 19 inch bell, and I am definitely looking for a smaller instrument.

windshieldbug wrote: There are “good” bassoons!?

There are bassoons that I can (or could once) play in tune, but my exposure was limited to what the school had to lend (black plastic Fox in high school, and something wooden that I was happy enough with in college). And that was a while back, before instruments got so crazy expensive.

Where do middle school kids get starter instruments these days? And not even tubas, just ordinary decent student trumpets and clarinets? I live in a decent sized metro area that has good public school bands, and there's one local music store that isn't Guitar Center (which doesn't stock band instruments in its stores). The cheapest clarinet this store advertises is a $3500 Buffet. Will that be the kid's marching horn when they move up to something fancier in high school? The low end trombone in their inventory is a Yamaha YSL891Z (strait tenor, no F key) for $2300.

I'm not complaining that these are bad instruments, but it this really what people are paying to get their kids started in band now?

Me??

1. Give Baltimore Brass old tuba to sell in weeks, not months.

2. Get replacement tuba with a 4% 18/mo Visa check

3. Pay it off in 18 months

4. Repeat!!

bloke wrote: - I've NEVER bought a new car.
- I've NEVER financed a car.
- I've NEVER financed anything other than houses.
- I've ALWAYS paid off houses that I've bought absolutely as quickly as possible...or paid cash for them, and fixed them up as I earned more cash to buy more construction materials.

Greetings, fellow Martian. (As you have probably surmised. Yes, they sent me here, but only partly for that purpose.)

I´ve financed TWO of my Instruments in my life, all others were paid in cash.

In one case I made a deal with the community band that owns about 70% of all Instruments, anyway:
They bought the horn, we made a written contract on payback-plan, which was adhered to.
A year later that thing was mine, and had been used to the band´s benefit in the process.
No interest paid.

Several years after that I sold that horn and let it pay for the next upgrade, which is STILL being used to the band´s benefit today.
I always considered my horns to be MY version of hunting-, fishing-, skiing-, gaming-, or other pastime gear which I have NO use for and never bought.

The one truly fancy horn I own and had custom built to my preferation (5v 5/4 Willson BBb) doesn´t even come CLOSE to a Harley Davidson others might "need" for recreation.
It also is NOT among those horns I got myself in debt for.

Donn wrote:

bloke wrote: - I've NEVER bought a new car.
- I've NEVER financed a car.
- I've NEVER financed anything other than houses.
- I've ALWAYS paid off houses that I've bought absolutely as quickly as possible...or paid cash for them, and fixed them up as I earned more cash to buy more construction materials.

Greetings, fellow Martian. (As you have probably surmised. Yes, they sent me here, but only partly for that purpose.)

There are more Martians around...
I have also never bought a new instrument for myself, but admittedly bought a new piano for my son last year - paid in cash.

Double posted. grr.

anotherjtm2 wrote:

windshieldbug wrote: There are “good” bassoons!?

Where do middle school kids get starter instruments these days?

I'm not complaining that these are bad instruments, but it this really what people are paying to get their kids started in band now?

Speaking as the mom of two high school band students - They get you by the short and curlies if you aren't careful. Usually it's a rent-to-own situation for a student model. Or a borrow from the school situation, although those are limited in number and type.

When #1 son declared that he wanted to play the trombone (band started in 6th grade back in Georgia) because Riker in Star Trek played trombone, I went to a pawn shop and paid (overpaid) $80 for an eTude tenor that was straight, no leaks, and I could get a decent sound with(for someone who hadn't blown a horn in almost 20 years at that point). Then talked them down to $45 for the equivalent of that $3500 Buffet clarinet. I made sure the new owners (parents of my son's buddy) understood they'd be paying a couple hundred to have new pads and corks done. The springs and keys were good. I think it was a Yamaha, might have been a Selmer. Higher end student model. Both instruments were better than paying the $48+/month rental fee.

#1 son finally broke that etude last December to the point where fixing it would cost more than I paid, right before a concert. Spousal unit didn't want to accompany me to the pawn shop where I knew there was a decent tenor with an F trigger for $800, and insisted on buying the brand new Yamaha on a payment plan. He broke my frugal brass heart. At least it's sturdy. #1 son also plays my Elkhart Conn 62H bass trombone. I won't let him play it for pep band.

#2 elected to start band in the 5th grade playing my vintage wooden student Bundy oboe. I had it re-padded and corked (again). It was dropped at one point, and I contemplated the cost of replacing it. I paid to have it pinned. #2 has since switched to percussion. After 2 years of auxiliary, my freshman is now the lead snare, and practicing on the $200 used Tama Rockstar trap set I bought at a garage sale. #2 finds joy in learning all the instruments possible, so I keep acquiring them, to my husband's eternal dismay. For #2, I have a $30 Olds tenor trombone (1980's) that has a sweet tone, an Elkhart Conn trumpet, a $50 used Yamaha guitar from husband's brief attempt to be musical, bless his tone-deaf heart, a new Kala soprano ukulele, a set of Ludwig bells from a pawn shop ($30)... the list goes on. Currently the Olds is on loan to a missionary who is giving #1 trombone lessons and playing in my brass band.

I love my $100 middle school de-accessioned reject beater Jupiter. The action is easy enough, she's got good compression, and while Jupiter considers the it a full-sized tuba, it's barely larger in bore size than the 3/4, and still doesn't take the air (that I don't have) of a true 4/4 or 6/4 monster (that I can't afford). After seeing me playing my beater 1980's tuba, a friend dropped of that most sincere tuba patch on my front porch.

I can justify spending money a little too easily on musical instruments, especially if it's for my kids, but unless they're seriously going to college on a music scholarship, or I stumble across the deal of the century, I'm not 'upgrading'. They can get jobs and learn the angst of saving and maybe missing out on a deal...

I have yet to master Bloke's ability to sell my precious acquisitions. Possibly because most of them aren't worth much to resell...

Tax returns paid for most of my musical toys. Some wind falls, and a bonus. Only charged for one toy. But like bloke, I do not drive new cars, or buy much on credit. And find that having cash on hand has allowed me to get some great buys of used instruments. That includes my most expensive one as I could draw from a long time savings plan. I need to play test them, so all are locally purchased. My kids played what I could fine. My grand and great grand kids have a nice supply of toys to barrow from. When they decide what they will settle on, they can get their own. I have lent many things out for a one month period for the "I always wanted to play ….." people. Only two have went on to buy their own toy. Most never touch the loaner in a month and returning it, saving their money. I have given away toys to good homes where they would be played and loved and the person was deserving. Now I need to think about what to do with it all after I am gone. Or they will.

Not going soon I hope,
Charlie C. Chowder