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Hey can anyone tell me the difference between these 3 tubas im looking at buying one of them and cant decide

bloke wrote:If you are about to engage in a budget 6/4 shoot-out, you should certainly include Tom’s Zo.

I’ve only had the opportunity to play one in a noisy elephant room (and at the noisier end of the room), but my first impressions were very favorable.

And you should take the BMB off of the list. The intonation issues on the few that I've played have not been worth it couple that with the inconvenience of the dependent 5th and the janky mechanism for it. All of the issues are better, if not fixed, on the Eastman, Wessex, and ZO.

DB

Douglas wrote:And you should take the BMB off of the list. The intonation issues on the few that I've played have not been worth it couple that with the inconvenience of the dependent 5th and the janky mechanism for it.

Maybe I have a good instance of the BMB J-865, but I didn't find the intonation too horrendous. It certainly isn't point-and-shoot, but I doubt any of the York clones are.

I'll grant he dependent 5th does take some getting used to. I miss 2-3-5 for C#2 and F#1 sometimes still. I haven't had any issues with the mechanism, however, and it feels easier to depress the valve for me vs more conventional linkage.

The Brute Squad wrote:

Douglas wrote:And you should take the BMB off of the list. The intonation issues on the few that I've played have not been worth it couple that with the inconvenience of the dependent 5th and the janky mechanism for it.

Maybe I have a good instance of the BMB J-865, but I didn't find the intonation too horrendous. It certainly isn't point-and-shoot, but I doubt any of the York clones are.

I'll grant he dependent 5th does take some getting used to. I miss 2-3-5 for C#2 and F#1 sometimes still. I haven't had any issues with the mechanism, however, and it feels easier to depress the valve for me vs more conventional linkage.

In my experience, intonation Eastman and the Wessex are much better than the BMB. I have tried multiple examples of the BMB, Wessex, and Eastman in front of the tuner. I haven't tried the ZO in front of a tuner.

How about the low register easiness and fluidness of range between eastman and wessex because thats really what im looking for

JoeBostwick wrote:How about the low register easiness and fluidness of range between eastman and wessex because thats really what im looking for

That is exactly why I sold my Eastman, the Zo is hands down much better. When playing on my FB page I wrote a side by side and although the Eastman is a wonderful tuba, there was just too much fluff in the sound and response. We have worked with Zo on pitch and all that was involved was cutting some tubing off the 2nd and 3rd valve tuning slides. They nailed it and this is why we carry it.

One thing you will never see on our site is a horn that has pitch issues. When I say I have high standards when it comes to this, I really mean my standards are ridiculous high with everything we carry. If I buy a model to test and it turns out to be a pig, I scrap it altogether because I dont want the Mack Brass name on anything that's questionable. At a minimum, a pro has to pick up our models and say "yup, I would certainly buy that one'.

Cheers

Hey Tom,

So who is "ZO" anyway? Are they a Chinese manufacturer that has been around for quite a while? Or was previously (or currently) known by another name? Or brand new...? Just kind of curious how all of a sudden this crazy good new 6/4 shows up with an unfamiliar name on it. I mean, good on you for bringing this to the market ... Just curious about what it actually is!

JoeBostwick wrote:How about the low register easiness and fluidness of range between eastman and wessex because thats really what im looking for

Hi Joe, For the Wessex, why don’t you visit our Chicago showroom and try for yourself. Feedback I hear is the low register is easier on the Wessex, but the only way to see what works best for you is to try for yourself.

Wessex Tubas also has a special deal on at present. You can visit the Chicago showroom to try, we have multiple of the Chicago-Presence and Chicago-York in stock from which you can choose - and if you buy during visit and take the tuba away with you, Wessex will reimburse your travelling expenses on production of receipts up to 10% of the price of the horn. We can offer this, as an alternative to free shipping anywhere in the USA which Wessex now offers on all purchases over $250.

Point well taken but from a HD rider (and former Shadow owner) this is totally a pimped out Honda Shadow from the mid 80s, possibly a VT700C
Happiness comes in many forms, look at that smile!

bort wrote:Hey Tom,

So who is "ZO" anyway? Are they a Chinese manufacturer that has been around for quite a while? Or was previously (or currently) known by another name? Or brand new...? Just kind of curious how all of a sudden this crazy good new 6/4 shows up with an unfamiliar name on it. I mean, good on you for bringing this to the market ... Just curious about what it actually is!

Good question Bort. ZO started a little after the Buffet group bought out Wiseman. Several of the employees that worked there started the ZO company and brought the craftsmanship with them. Slowly but surely we are working with them on different tubas and they are bringing out one horn at a time that is just amazing. We saw the opportunity to work with them on several models that are just on a different level from anything else I have played.

JoeBostwick wrote:Hey can anyone tell me the difference between these 3 tubas im looking at buying one of them and cant decide

I would start by going to each website and reading up on each one. Then I would go to YouTube (and other internet searches) to see if there are anyone playing / reviewing / performing on them, etc. Then, I would put a feeler out for other tubeneters that might live near you that might own one or more of these that you might be able to try.

Best of luck!

bloke wrote:EVERY time I've ever bought a tuba for MYSELF, a ROAD TRIP has been executed.

Recently, three of the four mentioned above (to my knowledge, not the BMB) were in the same room in Arlington, Virginia.
==================================
I'm not sure what's going on with BMB, but am curious to know.
I went to the website, and (??) it seems to have been hacked (or something)...??
(I got a "we blocked a virus for you" warning.)
I was able to view a CACHED version of the home page in this manner, but that's all:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... efox-b-1-d
The facebook page appears to be active, but I don't see much there - at least, not recently posted - that is specific to the actual instruments.
It would be great to hear from Mr. Barth.

I'm not sure at all, but do I have some correct/vague memory of the CC 6/4 being reconfigured to not-so-much resemble a Rusk version?

Just a FYI...Rob Phillips of Buckeye Brass in Ohio is now 'the mothership' for BMB/Buckeye Brass and ...the 2nd generation CC 6/4 is in his hands. A rebirth is coming......with a new twist. Contact Rob for more info...2021 should be an exciting year....
Mark

bloke wrote:

Worth wrote:Point well taken but from a HD rider (and former Shadow owner) this is totally a pimped out Honda Shadow from the mid 80s, possibly a VT700C
Happiness comes in many forms, look at that smile!

The thing is this:
None of the 6/4's mentioned in this thread are "geniune HD's" either.

A subtle and spot-on juxtaposition elusive to me as I was focusing on the trees and not the forest

Just a FYI...Rob Phillips of Buckeye Brass in Ohio is now 'the mothership' for BMB/Buckeye Brass and ...the 2nd generation CC 6/4 is in his hands. A rebirth is coming......with a new twist. Contact Rob for more info...2021 should be an exciting year....
Mark[/quote]

Well, that is interesting. I live about 20 minutes from there. I got a chance to play an 865 their briefly (my two year old was sick and I was on borrowed time with her). I went back the next week to have some work done on my bass trombone, and it had been sold. Once this is all over, I have a few more instruments that need work (which is an excellent excuse to play test the tubas there). It will be interesting to see what the new one brings.

Stryk wrote:I wouldn't trade my 6/4 frankentuba for any of the above. Get someone that knows what they are doing to make one for you. A better horn at about 1/3 the price. Norm Epley made mine, and it is a fine horn.

You can get a custom built (from used parts) 6/4 CC for $3,000 to $4,000? Edit: For reference the Wessex clones are under $8,000 as of the date of this post and the ZO from Mack is $8,500. It’s really tough to roll the dice on a custom built horn that may or may not turn out as desired that someone may have to sell later on, since a lot of us are horse-traders of a sort.

Also, to be fair, there’s a one-off 6/4 CC in the for sale section that is cheap compared to most other big CCs and has yet to sell. It’s probably a decent player, but (like bloke’s other topic implies) without someone having access to try it out, the price isn’t low enough to offset the expected risk. However, most 6/4 tubas of the past occupied this category.

Somewhat on topic:

When trying out these 6/4 tubas, how many people show up with the proper mouthpiece to plug into them? There’s probably a lot of peeps showing up with a PT-50+ and throwing it into a clorkspired unit expecting it to sound like their prior horn plus 3db (twice as loud).

I have the Wessex and the Eastman here. I've played them both, A LOT! In My OPINION, they are completely interchangeable.

Stryk wrote:I wouldn't trade my 6/4 frankentuba for any of the above. Get someone that knows what they are doing to make one for you. A better horn at about 1/3 the price. Norm Epley made mine, and it is a fine horn.

Have you actually tried the different horns? You cannot really say what is better, unless you have actually tried and compared. But there are not many professionals playing Frankentuba 6/4’s

Wyvern wrote:But there are not many professionals playing Frankentuba 6/4’s

Let's be real, Jonathan -- there simply are not many professionals, period.

Stryk wrote:

Matt G wrote:
You can get a custom built (from used parts) 6/4 CC for $3,000 to $4,000?

Yes.

Figuring $50 an hour for labor (and consumables) that’s 60 to 80 hours of labor, neglecting the cost of acquiring parts. Even with extreme savvy I’d figure there has to be $1000 worth of parts at a minimum in a build. So realistically it’s probably 40-60 hours of labor there, which still seems a bit low.

In other words, someone building 6/4 horns for this suggested rate is effectively doing volunteer work.

bloke wrote:I wish any of the instruments that I restored/enhanced for myself - over the years - only required two work-weeks of my time.

Were that the case, I would have completed all the personal projects waiting in the wings.

Yeah, that’s kinda my point. I remember when Matt Walters was cobbling together excellent 4/4 horns from Buescher, Conn, and King parts. When new they were about $9,500 and fairly reflected the quality of the product, parts, materials, and labor. And that was almost 25 years or so ago.

I’m all for supporting craftspeople, but I’m hesitant when I hear numbers that don’t make financial sense. Guessing what you sold your restored 186CC for, it was a fair price (IMO), that reflected the time spent getting it in good order while providing reasonable income.