How hot?

[Craigtbone]

When rinsing out a tuba, how hot is safe for the lacquer and the tuba in general?

I started playing tuba 10 months ago but played trombone for 45 yrs. As I recall the Bach brass lacquer of years ago was quite sensitive to elevated temperatures.

My tuba is a Conn 3J, 1979. The tap water in my bath tub can get just hot enough to be a little painful. Is that hot enough to damage the horn in any way?

My interest in hot water is that I am noticing some oily buildup in the valves. A bit of warm water should be able to flush that out.

Any input is most appreciated.

(I suspect this subject has already been discussed but my searches did not find it)

[Ken Herrick]

ADD SOME DISH WASHING FETERGENT Sorry about the caps . If it doesn't hurt you, it wont hurt the lacquer - unless it is crap that shouldn't be there in the first place.


(just got home from trying to edumacate sumbudy bout wat theey shudanone better about amyway

[tbonesullivan]

A hot water bath is a popular way to go to raw brass on Bach Stradivarius trombone bells that are older than 10 years. It makes the Nitrocellulose lacquer fall right off. Bach has now joined the club and gone to epoxy. So, with older instruments, as bloke described, care is needed. Also, if you have a restored / refurbished older instrument, most smaller shops are not set up for epoxy lacquer baking, and use Nikolas lacquer, which is Nitrocellulose.

Most modern instruments have oven baked epoxy lacquers. You would probably boil them and the lacquer won't go anywhere.

[Craigtbone]

Does anyone know if 1979 era Conn tubas used the good or bad lacquer?

A little soap, yes I do that.

I have a Bach Strad tbone from 1976ish so that is what makes me a little concerned with horns & hot baths.

[tbonesullivan]

Does anyone know if 1979 era Conn tubas used the good or bad lacquer?

Was that before or after they became part of UMI with king? I know that in the 70s king went to "that orange stuff" on a lot of their horns, which is VERY hard to remove. Conn was always more on the up about technological innovations, like welded bell seams, so I would assume by the late 70s they had moved past Cellulose lacquers.

[Craigtbone]

Thanks for the input folks.

Most of the horn still has lacquer, and it looks in good condition. Places that are touched a lot are bare. No signs of flaking.

I will wash it out. Might try the hot water on a slide first but I suspect it will be fine.

[MN_TimTuba]

Two years ago my Holton was completely de-dented, chem cleaned, and a few other things, and had lacquer touch-up on all the now-beautiful tuning slides, and was a big improvement. She's been ultra-sonically cleaned once since then, and I've done my own cleaning, too. Tonight I pulled all the tuning slides in order to try a new slide grease, cleaned them all in dish soap and hot water (could still hold my hands in it) - and the lacquer peeled in little sheets. I have never seen that before. So, now the tuning slides are mostly devoid of lacquer; and, to top it off, I don't like the new slide grease one bit. Anyhow, I bump into my repair man once or twice a year, so I'll have the chance to ask him what manner of lacquer he uses and let him know it has a 2 year expiration date. Phooey.

[tubeast]

If the horn´s contact areas are stripped already, I wouldn´t worry too much about it.
If flaking occurs: So what ? The instrument is already being played for sound, not for looks, right?

My Melton 46 has stripped itself of laquer to the extent that I consider scraping the remaining laquer off, as well.
The Melton 2011FA shows following symptoms:
First small areas underneath laquer turn black
Then laquer falls off
then adjacent areas turn black, sort of like a growing bacteria population in a petri-dish.

This might become an issue when I want to sell it eventually, but until then...

[tbonesullivan]

my wild guess: rattle-can Nikolas

Most likely, or maybe even spray gun. I don't know if they still use it, but Dan Oberloh used Nikolas in a gun, with a bit of tint, when re-lacquering two restored Miraphone 186s. Those photos are from years ago, so maybe things have changed.

[MN_TimTuba]

This might become an issue when I want to sell it eventually, but until then...

My concern exactly.
Pretty Horn $$ > Ugly Horn $$ (in the general public's eye, anyway).

[tadawson]

Can't say that I remember many details, but around 1978 a kid in the band I was in got a brand new baritone. Not sure the brand, but not huge $$$, but not crap either. He was so proud and really babied the thing not a single mark! Several months in, he decided to clean it, and into the bathtub it went. Not sure the exact temp, but I can't fathom anything you could not put your hands in to work. . .

Almost 100% lacquer loss! It looked almost like it had been sandblasted . . . .

So, for me, from that point forward, it's been lukewarm, or not at all. Perhaps I'm paranoid, things have changed, etc. but what I have seen is a solid 0 out of 1 in hot water . . .

FWIW . . .

[dmmorris]

Lacquer is evil. Take it all off and never worry about it again. Or better yet, order raw brass from the beginning.