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Hey TubeNet, I was wondering if you guys have some insight on how to choose the right F tuba. I like to always have my tone dark with a load of core and not a lot of bite, but at the same time, I don't want a sound too heavy like when I solo with the CC. That being said, I know it won't be as heavy regardless. I've have played a bit on a 6/4 Alex F that my school has and it is really just too big of a sound for my tastes. HMU with your best suggestions! Thanks!

The basic advice (which is right!) is always: (1) Talk to your teacher about it; and (2) Play as many as you can.

With that said, at the core of these questions is always the reality for most people: Most of us don't have access to every F tuba on the market, nor the funds/time to schedule various trips to the big shops to try several different models. So actually sitting down with a decent cross-section of F tubas to come to a decision is really tough.

First thing first, you noted a major decision factor: You know approximately what you are looking for. You don't want something too big. So that will knock out a lot of models from consideration (MW 45/46, 2250; Yamaha 822, Willson 3200, etc...).

You also need to sort out your budget - They can get expensive. While the Miraphone F's are wonderful, they can break the bank. Same thing with a lot of the other European models. But if you get a used one, it will also keep resale value very well, so when you invariably (like we all did) get used to playing F and develop your opinions on it over more time, you will be able to sell/trade it and get something that matches your future tastes.

THAT ALL BEING SAID. My thoughts on horns I'm most familiar with:

I started out on a PT-10 for a couple years. It may be bigger than you want. But it is also NOT a CC tuba-sounding F. It's a good middle ground instrument. There are plenty of good copies of it being made these days that won't cost and arm and a leg and will let you settle into playing F tubas for a while. And they're good enough that there seems to be a healthy market for used models. There is also an art to playing an F tuba that you (I think. Also get off my lawn.) should learn early on that you won't get from some models. If you can learn to play F on a German F tuba, you can transfer that to any other F tuba and then not feel constrained to avoid German F tubas for the rest of your playing career.

Ultimately, the PT10 was bigger than I wanted at the time, and I had also been lusting after the MW182 for years. So I switched to a 182 a long time ago and haven't looked back. The 182, while definitely a great solo horn, does have its limitations in ensembles. So there will always be trade-offs. My solution to the gap between the 3/4 F and 5+/4 CC (PT6) was to move on from the PT6 and get a smaller CC horn that fit better in smaller groups. Seems to have been a good call.

I have always like the Miraphone Firebird. Never owned one. Played a few. I think it strikes a nice balance.

None of that probably helps a ton.

Basic advice:
Talk to your teacher and try to get connected to people within a reasonable drive who have different models. Offer to buy them a beer if you can try their horn for a couple hours. Most people will say yes to that. Figure out what you like. Focus your search for similar horns in your price range.

Caveat:
Social distancing. May need to wait.

Bonus:
After social distancing, people will be even more likely to want to meet up and play-test horns.

Building upon what others have said so far, F tubas that sound like smaller C tubas will do just that; put out a lot of nice, thick sound and are easy to pick up, but the upper register won't be as easy. F tubas that sound more "F-tuba" ish (for lack of a better way to phrase it" will take more time to learn, but in general will be easier to work with in the upper registers. With both, your intonation may vary wildly from horn to horn. Personally, I prefer an F tuba that sounds different than my C, but it depends on what you're looking for and what you'll be playing.
Almost all the studio tuba players in LA play a Yamaha 822. It depends on what you'll be using it for, and how you/the people you're playing for want you to sound.

Here are the reasons tuba players might consider an F tuba:

1. Solo work: For this, you need a singing tone, which means lots of color, which, in turn, means a rich overtone structure. "Dark" means, to me, a lack of color, with the expectation that other instruments will build on the foundation. But that's the problem with "dark" as a description--it doesn't mean anything in particular.

2. Quintet: Two branches here. 2a.) Tuba as bass trombone. This is particularly appropriate for Rennaissance and Baroque works, and for any quintet which has a fifth part written for bass trombone instead of tuba. Here, the tuba absolutely must be able to put a little bite in the sound, or it will sound like a pillow in the company of knives. 2b.) Tuba as tuba, but without burying the other players. I have been playing my Hirsbrunner kaiser in quintet for those works that just wanted a contrabass sound, but I can only use about 20% of that instrument's potential, especially indoors. It is just too much. I have recently purchased an Eastman EBB534 for that application, and it's a lot easier to manage in the quintet. But it produces a round tone, so I still bring the F tuba for those works where I want the bite. F tubas like the Yamaha 822 fit in the 2b category pretty well, but not the 2a category, in my observation. But the Yamaha 621 goes the other way, though a bit player can get a bit sound from it (listen to Sam Pilafian (RIP) with the Boston Brass--unlike with the Empire Brass, Sam always used a Yamaha 621 F tuba in the Boston Brass for its sound characteristics).

3. Orchestral parts specifically written for F tuba. Berlioz comes to mind, but there are, of course, many examples. Here, the F tuba needs to have a big sound, but more important than weight is clarity. The objective is to provide another point of color, not to move earth. Composers who wanted to move earth either specified contrabass (as did Wagner) or wrote parts with the sound of the contrabass tuba in their heads (as in the later Romantic and subsequent periods). To be a point of color, the tuba has to a. sound like a tuba (rather than a trombone) and b. project loudly. I submit (and I think Bloke would agree) that the B&S was one of the first F tubas to really carry this off was the B&S Symphonie.

4. General-purpose orchestra tuba playing. In Europe, this was common but is now declining, as tuba players adopt CC contrabass tubas as their default instrument. This is the only use case where an F tuba needs to sound like a contrabass.

Variation on Bloke's remarks: Many try to optimize their F tuba choice for Number 4, and end up with an instrument they have to fight for 1-3. The best players are up to the fight. I remember being rather astounded by the color Carol Jantsch is able to get from her Yamaha 822. What made it astounding was its rarity in my observation.

I like traditional B&S F tubas, but they are not point-n-shoot. I bought it so I would have an F tuba that could be heard when played with a large ensemble, which my Yamaha 621 could not. I generally use it for quintet, but once in a while I use the 621. I used the 621 routinely, and it was perfect for, the high tuba part in a tuba quartet. And with a shallow mouthpiece, it will go trombone-like when you need it to.

Rick "trying to organize a way to think about needs" Denney

Kpen wrote:... I've have played a bit on a 6/4 Alex F that my school has ....

6/4 Alex F?

Can you post a picture of that?

A few things:

* Your CC tuba is a PT-6, which is a very large tuba. Anything in the F tuba universe will sound much smaller and lighter than a PT-6.
* I'm guessing that if you like the PT-6, it wasn't the first (or second, or fifth...) tuba you owned, really tried, or strongly considered. Choosing a CC tuba, if you're like most people, is a bit of a journey. Expect the same thing with an F tuba.
* If you're new to F tubas in general, get something middle of the road and play that for a while to decide what you like and don't like.

I'd go with something like a PT-10 or other similar rotary F tuba. Play that, learn it, and decide what you like and don't like. There are a LOT of good options out there, and the differences between them can be very large or very small. The PT-10 is sort of the "Miraphone 186 of F tubas," meaning that it won't hold you back, but not everyone loves it enough to keep it forever... Although some people rightfully do exactly that.

Hope that helps. Probably not... But it's how I would approach this!