Front Piston F Tubas with 5th Rotary Valve Feedback

[Bobmecum]

Has anyone test played the current offerings for Front Piston F Tubas with 5th Rotary Valve from Nirschl or Wessex?
I would suspect that they would be brighter than their Kaiser Rotary F tuba design counterparts I've play tested at numerous conferences and would be good AFFORDABLE alternatives to the German & Japanese MFGs.
These two are 4/4 tubas, but i would also like to know about any 5/4+ you prefer for Symphony work.

MWN 2:
http://www.walternirschl.de/sites/sites ... rschl.html" target="_blank

Wessex TF555 HP:
https://wessex-tubas.com/products/front ... 2XLLVU3KwI" target="_blank

[Mark Moore]

I bought the Hirsbrunner F tuba 23 years ago, now called model 389, larger bore. It has a wonderful sound and excellent intonation. Very easy to use in orchestra and solo, quintet playing. I do own a Nirschl York model which I love equally.
I played the new JP piston F that Dave Fedderly had at Midwest this year. I, also thought it was a very nice horn, especially for the price they were thinking. It would be very much worth looking into.

[cjk]

I'm curious as to the desire to compare these two particular instruments.

The Nirschl is not very common and probably very expensive?

The Wessex is a pre-order item, so no one barring Wessex employees (?) has played the factory version, but it's probably considered inexpensive.

I'd be pretty shocked if one couldn't buy two (or maybe even three?) of the Wessex instruments for the cost of one of the Nirschls.

[DouglasJB]

The new Packer F tuba is amazing. It should be on anyone's short list of Affordable F tubas.

It's possible (??) that I might be able to get my hands on one. (Possible means POSSIBLE...and not-for-certain).
IF I can, I'd LOVE for someone to come HERE and buy it, so I could [1] give it a good test run MYSELF, and [2] possibly record a demo video playing it, to promote future sales (when they start flowing in to the USA).

If there's someone within driving distance, hot for one of these, and cash-in-hand (or credit card room), I'd like to be contacted, and I'll see what I might (or might not ??) be able to do.

Joe, this is a "Terrible" idea... you're only 4 hours away...

[Bobmecum]

Is it the JP379F model?
Only counting 4 valves there.
I need a 5th valve for the low range.

[GC]

It has a 5th rotor just below the 4th valve, with a lever for the right thumb.

[bort]

There are so many other piston tubas out there.

What about:
MW 45 SLP (did Lee Stofer sell that one he had?)
MW 2250
Gronitz 125 (Chuck W has one here in Mpls for sale)
B&S MRP or PT-10P (nobody seems to love the 10P, but it exists!)
Miraphone Petrushka (might be my favorite piston F tuba)
Yamaha 822, 821, or 621 (the 21's might be small for orchestra?)
Kanstul F tubas
Willson F tuba (forget the model #)

[Rick Denney]

that would be pretty limiting to have a non compensating F tuba without a 5th valve. For some reason Cerveny still makes 4 models of 4 valve F tubas, but they are the only one I can think of that does that.

Try the packer if you can. I can't imagine anyone not being impressed with it. It got me thinking about buying one, and I don't even play F tuba or even have a place to use it. I have an Eb tuba already collecting dust

I once owned a Musica (Austria, but who knows who actually made it) F tuba with four valves. It was a thousand-dollar special at a surplus store, and I bought it to learn F tuba. It worked fine for that. The lack of a fifth valve was not a problem at all, unless, of course, you wanted to play below low C.

I suspect the four-valve F's were made for German wind bands where the F tuba plays only a high tuba part, and a Bb is used for the low tuba part.

Rick "who replaced it with a Yamaha 621" Denney

[MackBrass]

We will be coming out with a 4 piston 1 rotor F that is the closest to a German rotary sound available today but doesnt have the issues of the rotary low register. We expect the first prototype to be available within the next month or so. The horn is a true full size f tuba that can be used in any situation and sounds like a real F tuba and not a small CC. Keep on the look out for this new model as it features the best upper register of anything I have ever played but has the nice easy low register that is common with most piston F tubas. Pricing will be in the target range of 3995 to 4500 in silver and will be made in the ZO factory. The quality at the ZO factory is on par with any other factory in the world.

[Bobmecum]

Thanks Tom.
This helps.
I figured this 4+1 layout would become popular since the York CC designs ha e a brighter clarity than thier rotary German counterparts.
I was a rotary valve bigot for 35+ years until I started testing York clones.
JP's usually have economical price points.
The ZO Thunderbird is an impressive CC. I'm very interested in the F flavor of it.
The Wessex is similar in the valve wrapping compared to the JP, but much shorter length of the top to bottom bows.
If these play as well as the reviews claim, I'll soon be adding one as the "Mini Me" to My Wessex Chicago Presence.

https://wessex-tubas.com/products/front ... nia-tf556h" target="_blank

[Bobmecum]

Wessex California F 4+1 TF556 HP available summer 2020
4,995 lacquer
6,250 silver

[Bobmecum]

Looks different than the JP379F pictured above that was being compared to the Wessex California.

[darth2ba]

FWIW, I was able to try the prototype of the Wessex 'California' model (it has a 16.5" bell vs the 'Solo' 15" or 'Symphony' 17" bell options on their website), and to me it resembled (tone quality and playability) the Miraphone Petrushka more so than the MW2182. The prototype has good intonation (yes, I had a tuner out and did not judge the intonation solely off of my ears).

Just my $0.02 worth. Hope this helps.

[Bobmecum]

Thank you darth2ba!
Actual test play feedback is what I'm after.

Traveling to tuba conferences to eval tubas gets expensive. Gas, hotel,meals conf fees. JUST TO TOUCH THEM! Imagine if cars were sold this way!
Midwest Clinic cost me $500 last time. Bought my Wessex Presence after the 3rd clinic.

[Matt G]

Why isn’t there a F tuba that’s got a bore similar to a 5J or 2341?

As I was about to hit the submit button, I realized that the YFB-621 exists. And I even owned one. At the time I owned it (late 90s) it had the easiest to play low register out of any F I had run across. I’m sure some tweaks could be made to the later branches, bows, and bell to make that thing a little more present out front. Maybe that’s what Tom at Mack Brass has in mind. A faithful yet budget oriented copy of the YFB-821 would be interesting.

[cjk]

I thought the small Willson F tuba might comply, but it's actually slightly smaller than .689"

WILLSON F Tuba 3200 FA-5 XS
Bore: 17,0mm / 0.669" Rotax rotor: 18,5mm / 0.728"

[cjk]

A faithful yet budget oriented copy of the YFB-821 would be interesting.

FWIW, this was actually suggested to Wessex several times, but they are more interested in making something new.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=72328&p=598768#p598768" target="_blank

[MikeMason]

My most memorable f tuba from Knoxville was the small willson f. I loved the way it sounded and played and the fantastic build quality . Until I took it in a room with a tuner, and when I saw the price. For the right price, I suppose you could rig a main tuning slide device.

[MikeMason]

Yep! I really liked it. A main tuning slide stick might’ve solved. I use one on my 621 and after an adjustment period, I can fix everything