G-C on a Rudy 5/4

timayer · Post by **timayer** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:50 pm

I'm playing a Rudy 5/4, and recently I've noticed that between middle C and the G below it, the sound suffers. It sounds almost like something is caught in the horn, but playing in the low register of it dispells that as a possibility. I was wondering if anyone noticed the same thing on the Rudys (or any other horn for that matter) and what might be done about it other than just blowing the bejeezes out of those notes to make them sound the same as the rest of the horn. Thanks all.

Tim Ayer

Sam Gnagey · Post by **Sam Gnagey** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:21 pm

I've had good success with my Rudy 5/4 by damping the bell with a wide leather belt wrapped around it over the trademark. There are a few other little modification add-ons that you might try if the belt doesn't improve things enough. Does it have a vinyl/plastic rim protector on the bell rim? Let me know if the belt works for you or if you notice any difference at all with it.
Sam

Sam Gnagey · Post by **Sam Gnagey** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:27 pm

Good for you, Russ!
Then please don't try any of my suggestions. They weren't intended for you.

TUBAMUSICIAN87 · Post by **TUBAMUSICIAN87** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:38 pm

are you practicing in the same room evertime? if not try another room because ive noticed that something in the room might vibrate and make an annoying sound if you are playing at certain high pitches

Sam Gnagey · Post by **Sam Gnagey** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:51 am

There are a couple of other things that I use on my Rudy that seem to improve that top-of-the-staff range: I use a home-made adapter in the receiver to set the mouthpiece out just about 1/2 inch. I use a cut-off end from a Conn sousaphone bit to make the adapter. I can give more detailed directions on how to make one if anyone is interested. Probably the Dillon Adjustable Gap receiver would have good application on a Rudy 5/4 for that purpose.
I've found that I like the response of a more shallow cup-shaped mouthpiece with a tight throat like the Mirafone C4 or Marciekiwicz N3.

Sorry, Russ, for my snippy reply. Sometimes the curmudgeon comes out in me. I get a lot of disbelief when I talk about these modifications, and they might not be necessary for some players and individual horns. But I've done some blind trials with my colleagues listening, and they could hear an improvement in sound and projection with everything that I've mentioned here and above. Some of you may be right that I'm just another deluded, wacko old fart playing in a mediocre regional band.

If you're at all curious these things are worth a try, and everything is easy and quick to A/B check for results.

BopEuph · Post by **BopEuph** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:53 am

(Uh-oh, a euphonium player chiming in!)

Is this a new horn for you? I remember when I finally had a Willson 2900 to play on, I thought the compensating system was bad (hey, I was 18 ). I was a freshman without a horn, so FSU loaned me one of these bad boys. Everything sounded stuffy when I played with the fourth valve. I thought that the horn was bad, and I wanted them to change the horns out. My professor told me to stay on it around a month longer and see if I don't like it. I just practiced on the fourth valve quite a bit, and he was right! When I finally had my money, I bought the horn right away.

Sometimes, it's just the nature of the instrument, and you have to get used to it. I sound bad on bass trombone with the triggers. I don't try to get gigs on that instrument or anything, so I don't shed it. But the fact is that the triggers act much differently than a fourth valve on a euph, and the only way to get the sound to come out is to get used to the horn.

If it isn't a new horn for you, disreguard everything I said.

Nick

Alan Baer · Post by **Alan Baer** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:05 pm

Short and simple,
have you checked the alignment of the horn???
AND, that horn is a hard one to find a mouthpiece that works well in all octaves. Sounds like you MAY be using too big of a mouthpiece, OR your using an American shank in it.... the end of your shank should be about .538-.540 on the end. if it's not, it's going in too far..
Good luck,
Alan Baer

ai698 · Post by **ai698** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:03 pm

On my Rudy 4/4, the horn is very mouthpiece sensitive. A Conn Helleberg is unplayable but a PT88 or the G&W Bayamo works great on it. You might want to look into a Dillon AGR like Sam recommends. Mine has one and it's nice to adjust the gap on different mouthpieces. It makes a difference on slotting and intonation.

tubapress · Post by **tubapress** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:07 pm

LV wrote:Pssst, there's no gap to adjust on a Rudy. The leadpipe goes completely thru what looks like the receiver. You actually plug the mpc into the end of the leadpipe, thus no gap...

FWIW

This is true. Imagine my surprise when I took my Rudy 5/4 in to Matt Walters at Dillon Music and we discovered that what looked like a receiver was merely a sleeve! Try the Dillon AGR. I bet you'll like the results.

I agree with Alan that there never seemed to be a single mouthpiece that worked really well in all ranges. For my particular horn it was the low register that was the most challenging.

If you can get your horn to Matt Walters so he can give it a good look-over and work some of his magic, I think you'll see vast improvement in how the horn plays.

JHardisk · Post by **JHardisk** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:25 am

I have 2 Rudy 5/4's. One very new, minus lacquer, with vented valves, and the other quite a bit older 80's, I believe with no modifications. The newer model has a smaller reciever, and is not nearly as free blowing, but is far more forgiving in terms of size of slots for notes. I love my older Rudy 5/4. On both horns, the top space G is insanely sharp. Solved the problem by playing it 1 and 2. The Ab on the top line is an incredibly hard note to shelf. I have yet to find a solution to this, other than don't suck, and hear the note prior to playing it. It has to be the easiest note to split on either horn. I've found that the PT 88+ works for me, particularly on the older of the two.

On a side note... I tried Sam's belt idea back in undergrad. I did notice a noticeable difference in the sound of the horn. Of course, the bell rang far less, and it had slightly more punch. What he failed to mention was the abuse one faces from their trombone colleagues when they go and strap a leather belt to their bell. That was enough to make me take it off, and never dream of it again.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:45 pm

JHardisk wrote:What he failed to mention was the abuse one faces from their trombone colleagues when they go and strap a leather belt to their bell. That was enough to make me take it off, and never dream of it again.

I would have taken off the belt and used it on my trombone colleagues.