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ALL the discussion lately about instrumental music, virtuosity, declining support for classical and "art" music got me thinking that we aren't all using the terminology in the same way. I'm curious, what do you all consider to be "real" intrumental music? Does your understanding involve just the instruments that could be found in a modern orchestra or symphonic band? How about instruments like the mandolin or dobro? Would any computer derived sound qualify as coming from a "real" instrument?

Personally, I tend to think more in terms of the "musician" rather than "instrument," but i recognize that it's not always helpful in the discussion to think in these terms.

Anyhow, I was just curious.

-Zack Zeman

My opinions:

Clearly, the musician makes the music and the instrument is the tool (a very important one) that the musician uses. So, I agree with you.

As far as what is a real instrumental music, I think that it would be incorrect to limit this only to modern western orchestras or bands. There are a lot of cultures that use some very different musical instruments to very musical ends.

Also, since you mentioned the mandolin. There are some nice orchestra parts and solos written for this instrument (and good parts in folk and other types of music). I am a big fan of the mandolin.

best,
Mark

zeman23 wrote:Would any computer derived sound qualify as coming from a "real" instrument?

Since you used the reference "personally", personally I composed using a Moog years ago (many more than I care to admit), so I do consider much computer derived sound, but it takes a musician to cause these events to happen musically (just as it takes a good tubist, good tuba, and good composer to make the buzzing sounds we make "musical"!). It takes a musician to arrange and perform any noise into music, and not ALL noise is music, just as all music is not noise!

I honestly think jazz is the chamber music of the present day. Mozart often wrote arrangements of his operatic music to be played by small chamber ensembles at parties etc. How is that any different?

I also consider many of today's musicals the opera of today. What makes Les Miserables or Phantom of the Opera or any of the modern musicals which are very "operatic" any less artistic than a Mozart or Verdi opera? Just because they perform them in english so people can understand them? Just because the music might have a rock beat to it?Are there lousy muscials today? Of course. I am sure there were many lousy operas written in the 17 & 1800's as well. Obviously we do not know about them anymore since they were lousy and no one cared to save them. There were also lighter styled operettas by Gilbert & Sullivan and others, which would equal the Oscar & Hammerstein style of show.

I think many "academics" consider these "commercial" endeavors rather than artistic endeavors, but how much music did Bach, Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms write for purely artistic reasons rather than commercial reasons? Obviously the majority of their work was commercial. That is how they made their living.

The orchestra as we know it is a 300 year old ensemble, and a very expensive ensemble because of its size. Who kept these orchestras alive in the days of Mozart and Haydn? Aristocracy and Royalty. Not many of them around today either. Modern composers have to compose for modern ensembles, with an acceptable sound if they want people to pay their hard earned money for it.

Before the 20th century more people studied music and played instruments at least somewhat proficiently because there were no recordings and if you wanted to be accepted in many social circles you had to have some musical ability. Many people played piano at least and people would gather around the piano and sing at family get togethers, etc. Nowadays all someone has to do is play a CD player and they can make more money than a musican as a DJ.

As Duke Ellington said there are only two kinds of music, good and bad. (Or is county and western?)

ken k

Some "classical" music venues thankfully don't suffer from tunnel vision. I understand that Baba Mal will be at this week's London Proms, for instance.

Much US and European classical music radio is stulifying.

I was delighted to discover that Classic FM SA (Johannesburg) has a weekly "Top 20" program with a DJ calling himself "Maestro". Interesting what shows up on the list.

Just to clarify Chuck's remarks - Baba Maal is from Senegal and is a UN representative on the issue of HIV/Aids - I quote from the official literature...... "music that combines a celebration of African culture with a powerful political message"

and then of course there is Heavy Tuba.............

16.08.05 Festwochen Gmunden, Austria

28.12.05  Tilburg, Netherlands

29.12.05  Tilburg, Netherlands

go to :- http://members.aon.at/heavytuba/tuba_eng.html

follow the video link and go way out

If that's not real music that puts me in the graveyard

Andrew Murray