Playing octave parts in concert band

[LibraryMark]

Another added complication...

If you have enough players AND YOU CAN MAKE IT SOUND MUSICAL, you can modify the OTHER octave as needed to play the line. For example, if it is apparent that the arranger did not want to write anything below a four-ledger E, but playing the D below that would be musically justifiable AND you can do it musically AND the upper octave is appropriately covered, then my opinion has always been to go for it. But if that cannot be done for any reason, just play the upper octave.

I do this all the time. Quite often it's obvious what the composer/arranger's idea was of what a tuba's lower range is so they will make low parts jump up in odd spots even though it makes no sense musically. If there is a descending line that would go well below the weeds if it weren't for the writer "chickening out", I follow the line down as low as it should go - pedal BBb and beyond. I can see why a part might have been written that way for a high school tuba player who can't play much below BBb. But if you've got the range, I say go for it. Quite often when I do that I get a knowing smile from the director.

[cjk]

Ask the conductor

[THE TUBA]

Ask the conductor

I agree, and will offer the provision: Email the conductor before rehearsal.

[MN_TimTuba]

Re: Brett's - Anyway, my general advice:
[*]1 tuba -- bottom always
[*]2 tubas -- split, if you have a very strong player on the bottom. If no strong player, then both on bottom.
[*]more than 2 tubas -- only one tuba on top; whoever has the smallest horn (or Eb, or F). Strongest player should stay on the bottom.
[*]Don't ask the conductor; that's just asking for trouble at that point. Let them tell you if they don't like it.
[*]If it's an older march or something that says "Basses", ignore those top notes.

That's almost completely my plan. Only real difference is, if I'm the only tuba then I'll often play the upper octave notes (not 5ths) first time thru, then the lower octave on the repeat, both for the sake of variety and to add noticeable fullness the second time around. But that's just me.

[Matt G]

That reminds me of when I was in conducting class and the professor, who was a solid conductor, said, “Never admit to being wrong even when you have no idea.”

[Z-Tuba Dude]

....Even some of the most important works for concert band have questionable tuba editing. Take the Holst 1st Suite (Matthews ed.). The octave divisi G in the opening phrase really should be performed as the low G. The tuba part at A has a top octave added in for some reason for only 3 measures. I know it might be sacrilege to insult the sacred texts, but most of the divisi in Holst 1 really should be performed bottom octave only IMO.

I would suggest that in the 1st movement Peasante, just before letter C, the upper notes should be played. It looks like that divisi is designed for young players, who are not secure on the upper part.

[Ace]

Don't have someone taking the upper octave or dropping octaves if they can't play those notes in tune.

+1

Ace

[tubeast]

Our community band conductor has been Tubist with the Augsburg Symphony, as well as Professor for Tuba, Euph, and concertband conducting at the Augsburg School of Music. (Yes, they have a Curriculum that will deal with concert band and its variations in contrast to Symphony orchestra).

So 1) he can tell differences in Tuba section work and 2) he WILL adress issues during practise, offering INFORMED Solutions to tuba-related problems.
(Yes, I am a very happy Tubist in that band and am prepared to cope with Your envy )

In a 35-40 piece community band with 3-4 tubists, the Modus Operandi is as follows:
- There is no "1st Tuba", even Eb-guy gets 2nd part literature.
- Divisi passages in octave parallels: maximum 1 on top, all others at bottom.
- Divisi passages in quint parallels: Audience will perceive this as the octave below (Brain notices 2nd and 3rd partials of an imaginary low note and calculates that note on its own). So that´s the note the Composer actually wanted to write, but "chickened out of" . So it´ll be 1 on top, 1-2 on bottom line, and Yours truly an octave below bottom line.

[tubeast]

...Wind orchestra is a different Story:
The large original works for wind orchestra often times are composed by informed People with an understanding of a Tuba section´s role.
In a 100 piece band, we had up to 7 tubas for high and low parts. Some members used to switch between Eb and BBb as the piece required.

[iiipopes]

Many of the scores we play in concert band will have the tuba parts split into divisi octaves. I understand that this probably originated with the use of Eb and BBb horns in the section. But what should we do when all the horns in the section are BBb? Do we all play the bottom part or should one of us play the upper part?
Generally, we tend to play "what ever note you can hit", but if we are all BBb horns should we all play the lower part. Personally, I like playing the lower octave as it just has more presence.

Cheers!
Play safe.

My high school band director was Navy School of Music trained. He explained to us that yes, the parts were originally written divisi for situations where the only players were Eb 3-valve players. But starting with Sousa, who insisted everyone in his band play BBb tubas, our band director in that tradition had us all play the lower notes.

That said, there are some instances where either the bass line breaks back awkwardly, and the upper notes in that particular measure or short section should be played to retain continuity. There are other more modern compositions that do actually write divisi on purpose, and before owning an Eb tuba, I would borrow either an Eb tuba or 3/4 BBb tuba to play the upper divisi. And of course, depending on the physical circumstances of the player, play what you can and enjoy it. A well played passage up an octave will always sound better than a lower octave rendition that suffers from lack of breath support.

All that said, especially with most of us who play in community concert bands, I don't think it really matters. What does matter are those who indiscriminately and egotistically take everything down an octave, just to show they can do it. That approach is the worst of all, muddying the bass line, destroying articulation, and eviscerating the very foundation, in stability of pitch, tempo, and clarity, tubas are supposed to provide to the ensemble.

[bone-a-phone]

Play it both ways in rehearsal, and if the conductor doesn't notice, go with the section leader's preference.

[Donn]

There's an apparently widespread notion that old band parts have divisi parts just to accommodate the inadequacies of their Eb tubas. Actually, the really old ones were written for bands that might have had only Eb tubas, and it's a rare march of that vintage where any pitch below A appears in the tuba part.

A cursory examination of old parts like that, e.g. Sousa's Liberty Bell restored to the popular ear in the '70s as the intro to Monty Python's Flying Circus, will turn up plenty of cases where the same low note has an octave divisi in one place, and not in another.

Band arrangements were not assigned to idiots in that time period. Play what you want, and certainly bearing in mind that your instrumentation is different, but that octave is there for some musical reason.

[bort]

If one person actually shows up regularly with (particularly: a small-belled) E-flat or F tuba, possibly (??) they could play the upper octave, but at a diminished dynamic.

I get to do this frequently with German brass band. One contrabass tuba, one bass tuba. Almost constantly in octaves. The upper part does NOT need to be loud. It has to be less than the bottom part for the balance to be appropriate. My stand partner is glad that I play the upper part (even though he is a heck of a player). I like honking down low like everyone else, but I enjoy the challenge of matching octaves. PLUS, I do not have to work hard AT ALL. I can play easy and, as long as it's in tune, it rides right on top of the bottom part and projects all it needs. It doesn't need to be loud, it just needs to be there. In a band setting, the tuba section can't be top-octave heavy. Balance is one of the challenges. It's a little bit akin to playing Meistersinger. The solo is not all about tuba (despite what we would like to think). Tuba is simply a part of/adding to a larger tutti thing going on, adding depth and color without overshadowing. Playing the upper octave in band also ain't all about YOU. That part should add depth and color without overshadowing. Or so it seems to me...

That sort of octave treatment seemed to be prevalent in the large Austrian bands I heard perform on Austria. That said... the entire instrumentation was FAR different, and was almost like a large brass band with some woodwind accents. Only a few woodwinds, like an orchestra section (like 2 or 3 flutes, a few clarinets, etc). Full section of rotary trumpets, flugelhorns, tenorhorns. 3 trombones -- aah... just enough for some bite. Euphs and baritones, and about 10 tubas. I remember seeing one or two F tubas, and one Kaiser tuba. And as far as my ears could tell, the F tubas were playing the upper octave, and the Kaiser handled the pedals. All other tubas were playing as written.

It was a monstrous sound, and it blew me away.

[Phil Dawson]

Back in the old days (60's and 70's and before) it was very common to have a string bass as part of wind ensemble sized band. Many times the composer did not write a separate part for the string bass but just put the tuba part up an octave on the same page for the string bass to read. Since the string bass sounds an octave lower than written this worked out well as the string bass and the tuba were then playing in unison.

[iiipopes]

(Brain notices 2nd and 3rd partials of an imaginary low note and calculates that note on its own)

It's not just the brain. It is a real, perceivable fundamental pitch derived from the subtractive effects of the combined wave form, as described by Sorge and Tartini in the 18th century. In the summer of 1984, I had summer classes at Cambridge and sang in Great St. Mary's choir. The last Sunday I was there, we all caravanned as had been scheduled to go to Ely to sing Evensong for the Bishop. The anthem had the tonic-fifth-octave final chord, with three of us singing it a capella: bass, yours truly on baritone, tenor. I was well aware of the necessity to get the fifth absolutely in tune to solidify the resonance. We nailed it. When the conductor cut us off, the sub fundamental, no louder than a human voice at mezzo-forte, completely resonated the nave. The three of us looked at each other with wide eyes, not believing what we were hearing. Yes, difference tones are real.

[iiipopes]

The famous french organ builder, Aristide Cavaillé-Coll, reinforced the pedal divisions of his organs not by building larger or sub octave pipes, but by always including a medium-toned wooden open 8' rank to reinforce the first overtone of the 16' pipes, which gave them greater depth. And many builders, especially in the lowest octave in both pedals and manuals, when space is tight, use a stopped wood fundamental and a softer open fifth together to make the difference tones lower octave of the pedal; or a stopped wood fundamental and a softer rank with more overtones to produce the lower octave of the manual 8' diapason, voiced to produce as little break tonally with the rest of rank.

Yes, the upper parts, as set forth above, should be a tad lighter in dynamic while being absolutely consistent in tone and articulation in order for the section to knit together properly.

[roweenie]

If one person actually shows up regularly with (particularly: a small-belled) E-flat or F tuba, possibly (??) they could play the upper octave, but at a diminished dynamic.

I get to do this frequently with German brass band. One contrabass tuba, one bass tuba. Almost constantly in octaves. The upper part does NOT need to be loud. It has to be less than the bottom part for the balance to be appropriate. My stand partner is glad that I play the upper part (even though he is a heck of a player). I like honking down low like everyone else, but I enjoy the challenge of matching octaves. PLUS, I do not have to work hard AT ALL. I can play easy and, as long as it's in tune, it rides right on top of the bottom part and projects all it needs. It doesn't need to be loud, it just needs to be there. In a band setting, the tuba section can't be top-octave heavy. Balance is one of the challenges. It's a little bit akin to playing Meistersinger. The solo is not all about tuba (despite what we would like to think). Tuba is simply a part of/adding to a larger tutti thing going on, adding depth and color without overshadowing. Playing the upper octave in band also ain't all about YOU. That part should add depth and color without overshadowing. Or so it seems to me...

I'll second all of this - bass tuba in the staff can cut through a group like a hot knife through butter.

In fact, on the occasions where my brass band goes with 3 basses, I'll always specify 2 on BBb, one one Eb, just for this reason - regardless of what horn they show up with.