Mack 422

The bulk of the musical talk
Post Reply
bone-a-phone
bugler
bugler
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:02 am

Mack 422

Post by bone-a-phone »

I just got a new Mack Brass TU422, a 3/4 4v valve front BBb. As a trombone player I've had some difficulty settling on a tuba form factor that makes sense to me, but I think this one does it. The 16" bell has good resonance, and the ergonomic situation I think can be worked out with some time and practice.

It came with what was described as a 24aw, which seems a bit bigger than I can handle at this point. I want to get a nice mouthpiece at some point (I use Doug Elliotts on my tenors), but I know the rabbit hole that mouthpieces can lead to. I'm going to try some (cheaper) smaller pieces and once I get centered, I'll move to maybe a Sellmansberger.

I'm practicing scales obviously and reading all my trombone music. Lots of tenor and treble (non-transposing) clef.

They say it's a 3/4 but it feels pretty big to me.

Its like the 421, except it's BBb instead of CC, and only has 4v instead of 5. Tom said this model replaces the 220, which I played before and didn't like.

Has anyone played the 422 and have any comments on the mouthpiece situation?
cctubaneeds
bugler
bugler
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:50 pm
Location: Edmonton AB - Canada

Re: Mack 422

Post by cctubaneeds »

My view on mouthpieces as a doubler. Get an appropriate mouthpiece for the instrument. Ex when I play bass trombone or tenor trombone I don't get a "Tuba players" bass trombone. I get a good Bass bone and good Tenor mouthpiece.

The horn you have is a variation on the Yamaha 621 theme. To me, these haven't been terribly mouthpiece sensitive and you can get away with mostly anything reasonable. I used a Helleberg 120 or 7b, the Yamaha 67C4 that comes with it, a Bach 18, a Kellyburg. To me the Kellyburg (stainless/silver or even plastic) worked really well.

For you, get some super standard mouthpieces to start. Don't get extremely small or large. Cheap option, order some plastic Kelly's to see what sizes you like, a Kellyburg and an 18(their 18 is slightly bigger than Bach), or get some Faxx versions FHB or 18. The Faxx FHB would probably be a great mouthpiece on that horn. Once you have become proficient on tuba and a mouthpiece then get something fancy like a 3 pc stainless.

P.S. That is a tiny tuba by most contrabass or bass standards. Get comfortable. It is probably a good size for a doubler and you can do almost anything on it.
JP379CC
Boosey & Co Solbron Eb - 4v Comp
User avatar
Matt G
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1196
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:24 am
Location: Quahog, RI

Re: Mack 422

Post by Matt G »

If you’re color insensitive, Kelly is selling red and yellow mouthpieces for $20 each.

https://www.kellymouthpieces.com/MY50PERCENT/index.asp" target="_blank

For that price, you could by the Helleberg copy, the 18, the 24AW, and the 25 for under $80 and see what works best as a starting point. You could resell the ones you don’t like and recoup your money, I’d think.
Dillon/Walters CC
Meinl Weston 2165
bone-a-phone
bugler
bugler
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:02 am

Re: Mack 422

Post by bone-a-phone »

@cctubaneeds yeah, that's pretty much the plan. It may take a year for it to run its course, but I'm going to get started.


@mattg
Thanks for the lead on the Kelly discounts. I'll definitely take them up on $20 tuba mouthpieces. Is the Kellyberg like a 120 or a 7b? I've played a 120 on a larger instrument and liked it. The 7b might be a better size for this instrument .

The slots on the tuba are pretty wide. Tbone either steers you into the pitch or cracks it. Tuba lets you drag the pitch with your chops even if you're not too close. So I've got to do some mouthpiece buzzing to train my tuba chops. That will probably be a good thing all around.
User avatar
Matt G
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1196
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:24 am
Location: Quahog, RI

Re: Mack 422

Post by Matt G »

The Kellyberg is more like the 120. The 25 is a hair smaller than the 24AW with a shallower cup. The site lists that as a good mouthpiece for doublers.

Like mentioned above, the YXB-621 series seems mouthpiece insensitive. I used a Bach 18 on my YFB-621. Dallenbach used a “normal” contrabass tuba mouthpiece on his YCB-621, iirc.
Dillon/Walters CC
Meinl Weston 2165
bone-a-phone
bugler
bugler
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:02 am

Re: Mack 422

Post by bone-a-phone »

Matt G wrote:The Kellyberg is more like the 120. The 25 is a hair smaller than the 24AW with a shallower cup. The site lists that as a good mouthpiece for doublers.

Like mentioned above, the YXB-621 series seems mouthpiece insensitive. I used a Bach 18 on my YFB-621. Dallenbach used a “normal” contrabass tuba mouthpiece on his YCB-621, iirc.
The horn might be mouthpiece insensitive, but I'm not. The 24aw is definitely too big for me. I went ahead and ordered 3 of the plastic Kellys - 18, Kellyberg and 25. Great price. It will help me zero in on what I need to be using.

As a note, I had a big leather shoulder strap sitting around, and it fit the 422 perfectly. I think I have the ergonomics mainly sorted out. The pinky valve is maybe a little jammed in, but it's manageable.
mikebmiller
bugler
bugler
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:08 pm
Location: Spartanburg, SC

Re: Mack 422

Post by mikebmiller »

The gentleman in our community band that passed away last week had a nearly new 422. I was thinking about trying to buy it from his family. I am also a bone/euph guy although I once owned a tuba for a year or so.
bone-a-phone
bugler
bugler
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:02 am

Re: Mack 422

Post by bone-a-phone »

mikebmiller wrote:The gentleman... had a nearly new 422. I was thinking about trying to buy it from his family... .
Its a nice horn. Some of the slides are a little tight. The only other problem is that the provided mouthpiece is too large for me. I've had some time to play it, and it plays better than other tubas I've played. Great big sound. I've tuned it up, and it's reasonable - any serious intonation issues are probably the players fault, I'm sure things will level out with a smaller mouthpiece. A bandolier strap makes it easy enough to hold, and even pull slides, we're I so inclined. At about 16 lbs It's probably all the tuba I'll ever need.
bone-a-phone
bugler
bugler
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:02 am

Re: Mack 422

Post by bone-a-phone »

Matt G wrote:The Kellyberg is more like the 120. The 25 is a hair smaller than the 24AW with a shallower cup. The site lists that as a good mouthpiece for doublers.

Like mentioned above, the YXB-621 series seems mouthpiece insensitive. I used a Bach 18 on my YFB-621. Dallenbach used a “normal” contrabass tuba mouthpiece on his YCB-621, iirc.
I got the Kellys in today. 18, 25 and Kellyberg. The 25 is the winner for me. Smaller throat makes the horn feel more manageable. It's hard to imagine this is considered a small tuba. It just rumbles. So I guess I've got a couple $20 mouthpieces available. Anyway, thanks for the help.
User avatar
Matt G
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1196
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:24 am
Location: Quahog, RI

Re: Mack 422

Post by Matt G »

bone-a-phone wrote:
Matt G wrote:The Kellyberg is more like the 120. The 25 is a hair smaller than the 24AW with a shallower cup. The site lists that as a good mouthpiece for doublers.

Like mentioned above, the YXB-621 series seems mouthpiece insensitive. I used a Bach 18 on my YFB-621. Dallenbach used a “normal” contrabass tuba mouthpiece on his YCB-621, iirc.
I got the Kellys in today. 18, 25 and Kellyberg. The 25 is the winner for me. Smaller throat makes the horn feel more manageable. It's hard to imagine this is considered a small tuba. It just rumbles. So I guess I've got a couple $20 mouthpieces available. Anyway, thanks for the help.
Success!

I’m sure if you can hold on to those pieces until COVID19 rolls off and there isn’t a 50% off sale, you should be able to turn the 18 and KB for a small profit.
Dillon/Walters CC
Meinl Weston 2165
joh_tuba
4 valves
4 valves
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:34 pm

Re: Mack 422

Post by joh_tuba »

Does anyone know what changed from the 420 to the 421CC/422BBb?
humbert
lurker
lurker
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:37 pm

Re: Mack 422

Post by humbert »

Might have been the 16" bell up from 15 and bigger bore on the 4th valve. Those are the changes Tom mentioned when the 422 was introduced.

Here's a thread on the 420

viewtopic.php?t=92024
Tubatooter
bugler
bugler
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:03 pm

Re: Mack 422

Post by Tubatooter »

As someone who plays all the brass cup sizes, my advice would be what was stated by someone else....get the mouthpiece that suits the instrument. Your chops will figure it out in time, and you'll get the best results that way. You will, in time, even be able to switch back and forth pretty easily.
Post Reply