Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

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BigMouthBass
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Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by BigMouthBass »

Hey all, I'm about to be finishing up my degree in Music Ed. In the next year or so, and I've explored the idea of upgrading my arsenal in some way. My teacher suggests I buy the most expensive name brand CC tuba I can afford as it will hold up longer than anything that's chinese-manufactured, however I feel this limits my playing and options with only having one horn, needing to borrow an F if I want to play F tuba literature on the horn it's suited for.

I'm not sure yet, but the possibility of grad school for performance is something I think about quite a bit, and from what I see having both my own CC tuba and F tuba would be ideal, even if just for the audition process, and having an F tuba would open up more opportunities for playing while teaching (solo rep, quintet rep, F tuba orchestral rep, preparing for auditions, things like that).

I know quite a few band directors/orchestra directors who don't really play anymore and their Willson/Meinl Weston/B&S is just sitting gathering dust except for the rare jam session or rare moment of free time to practice, and it becomes a very expensive paperweight...

I guess what I'm asking is, do any of you educators feel that you play enough to justify a X,XXX or XX,XXX price tag for a name brand horn? Or would a cheaper F and CC tuba be better for the more versatility they bring?

Thanks!
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by tclements »

Right now, Wessex is making some nice, high quality horns. The Eastman 6/4 CC seems to be the rage if you want/need a big tuba. The Wessex Prokofiev is a wonderful big BBb. Good luck!
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by BigMouthBass »

Thanks tclements, theyre on my list for sure, I've just got to wait around until I can schedule a tuba playing road trip to try em out!
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by BigMouthBass »

Thanks Bloke, I've been chewing on this for quite a while (8-10 mo. instrument purchases are something I don't take lightly) and I actually already own my own CC (something me and my teacher agree isn't the right fit for me and my playing) so I'm actually looking to upgrade and it's just a matter of how far, that might not have been clear in my first post...

I've played enough horns that are currently on the market and know I want a larger instrument, since the horn I currently have is on the smaller size and doesn't produce a sound I like anymore, it's a matter of how much playing is actually in a typical educator's future, as I've got the price range for a chinese copy that does 3/4 of the name brand at 1/4 of the price, or a nice used real thing.

I find when I ask this question to people I know I get an answer thats romantic and more of a

"this is how much I should be playing, and I'll tell you that so you dont see the reality that I play far less".

I've also had people tell me I should finance a 25k MW-6450 because it will be my "forever horn" and I can just "add it on to my student loan for a good interest rate" :roll:
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by scottw »

no, no,no! [sorry about the typing, shoulder replacement surgery this past Wednesday]
I've also had people tell me I should finance a 25k MW-6450 because it will be my "forever horn" and I can just "add it on to my student loan for a good interest rate" :roll:

Few of us have a "forever horn"--we change, the horn does not.
And rolling it into a student loan is a terrible idea.
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by paulver »

I agree with bloke. I would also add that teaching jobs don't start out at the top of the pay scale..... at least in my experience and tri-state area. I would..... buy what you can afford without going into great debt..... for now. Then, as you move up the pay scale and have a job that you like..... not just need, and you have a solid roof over your head, the ability to buy food, pay for utilities, clothes, etc., without worry..... then start looking for the horn of your dreams!!!! Then.... consider marrying someone who also has a good job, yada, yada, yada. That way, you'll have help paying it off!!! Or.... take the shortcut and marry into money right from the get-go, and buy that BAT!!
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by BigMouthBass »

Yep, thats one of the worst ideas I've ever heard, and it was quite a short conversation after that bombshell.

I'm also suspicious of him being a Meinl Weston sales rep...
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by BigMouthBass »

Thanks paulver, very good points! Security is paramount, especially with not knowing what music jobs are even going to look like in the future with this virus...
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by MikeMason »

I know a lot of band directors. 5-10% still gig(all instruments), usually just major holidays if they are near a city. The tuba players either kept their parents-bought-them college horn or just play the best one their school owns. The one or two directors I know that really gig and teach are super busy and really have to juggle to make it happen, but it’s possible. I do have a few who play in a national guard band. They have top notch government horns. The musical experience I hear about is so-so. Good benefits, some pay, a great horn. Just a thought. Also, I guess you probably know there are quite a few wonderful and experienced tuba players with no or shakey jobs right now. Virtually everyone in my area who has a music ed degree and wanted a job this year got one. Pay range around here is 39,000-95,000(rare). I would guess 65,000 to be the average with masters.
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by Dan Tuba »

If I could only own one tuba, and I was an education major, thinking about pursuing a graduate degree in performance, and I had a limited budget, I would purchase a 3+1 Compensating EEb tuba. JP377, Wessex "Champion", Besson 782, or even a used Besson 980/981 depending on your budget. You can literally get the job done for everything at a fairly high level. Sure, you won't be the cool guy sporting the latest and greatest, or have the entire color "pallet" at your disposal, but your colleagues/peers/teachers "usually" won't mind if/when you learn how to play it well.
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by BigMouthBass »

Interesting thought on the Eb... I'll have to add those to my list of "play and consider these before you buy" horns! Thanks!
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by tbonesullivan »

I would say, find a nice used horn you really bond with. There are lots out there. No reason to sink a ton into a brand new current design horn that will instantly be worth a bunch less than you just paid for it.

I would not think rolling it into your student loans would EVER be a good idea with the way they are structured. EVER EVER EVER. The way student loans are structured, unlike most other loans, they can charge you the interest up front with no payments towards the principal. This is why they take some people so long to pay off, as the principal doesn't get touched, and they can then charge more interest on it.

You'd be better off with a standard financing plan that is not a student loan, and would be required to make payments towards the principal and would also usually have a fixed payment term and interest rate.
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by BigMouthBass »

nworbekim wrote:This is kind of droll, but recent events in my circle of acquaintances has opened my eyes to the fact that a young person considering marriage might want to do a little background check on the candidate... Especially credit rating.
Not anytime soon for me, but thats not a bad idea :lol:
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by BigMouthBass »

tbonesullivan wrote:You'd be better off with a standard financing plan that is not a student loan, and would be required to make payments towards the principal and would also usually have a fixed payment term and interest rate.
For sure, I don't even want to touch financing until I have the stability of a salaried position, this purchase is straight cash; I've been lucky enough to be getting some income for digitizing/engraving (a.k.a inputting into finale) lots of music for some local directors. More for the horn fund!
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by Matt G »

I’ll be even more doom and gloom:

Given the current situation, arts budgets are going to get axed almost everywhere. If you’re dead set on teaching, I’d get a degree in something that will never get axed, like mathematics (biased as I have a math degree and a music ed degree), science, or “English”.

If you’re a math teacher (I did this for a while in life), you’ll have way more free time than the band director. You can probably even get some money for classes after school and band camp stuff at certain schools with enough budget. But you’ll likely not see your position listed on the chopping block.

A survey of how professional musicians are struggling at the moment contrasted with where money is at career-wise might be in good order. I know of none of my friends, including university music professors, that have a salary greater than mine from their primary employer. Sure, they can make things up with side jobs, but again, consider those jobs and the viability of them for the next 12-18 months.

When I received my music education degree, I went on a few interviews, was “the next guy” most of the time, and would’ve faced a sizable commute while earning not much money and in a rough school to “earn my stripes”. The luster of the degree started to dull during my internships as well. I went to work in a warehouse instead and taught lessons on the side as well as working gigs. More free time, more income, less overall stress.

Just another perspective.
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by MartyNeilan »

Matt G makes a good point. While you still have the chance, try to get a dual certification in something high-demand. For some states that is as simple as passing another Praxis test, but you may also have to take a few classes too. That extra couple grand you would have spent on a more extravagant instrument will pay dividends if invested in another subject's coursework.
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by cctubaneeds »

I have been a band teacher for 7 years... Next year with budget cuts I will be teaching much less music...

To your topic. My first 2-3 year I have very little to no free time. After that, what type and how much playing are you doing? You mention auditions, do you mean Orchestral auditions? If you mean anything other than that I don't see a need for an F tuba. I personally play in Community Bands and Brass Bands, and that has guided my gear acquisition.

Ask yourself you most realizing playing situation for the next handful of years, and set yourself up for that. To me, you have a CC right now. Maybe it isn't ideal, spend what time you have practicing and trying to get a teaching job. Once things are worked out you will have time to shop and really try stuff. I bought Chinese, based on other peoples opinions. After trying lots of horns, save and buy the horn you like the best. A used known good horn sounds like the best option to me, and if I could go back I would do that.
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by Matt G »

Also to clarify, I moved out of education altogether and moved into R&D type work. In my area, there are lots of former and current musicians to interact with. Lots of engineers stick with music as a hobby.
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by anotherjtm2 »

I'm surprised at the comments to let the school buy a tuba for you, or to set aside the school's best tuba for your own use. Is that a common perk? If not, do schools really not notice?
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Re: Advice for a Graduating Ed. Major

Post by jperry1466 »

anotherjtm2 wrote:I'm surprised at the comments to let the school buy a tuba for you, or to set aside the school's best tuba for your own use. Is that a common perk? If not, do schools really not notice?
It's not a common perk, sometimes schools don't notice the details. I have a friend teaching in a tiny school in Texas whose predecessor bought a silver Mack 410 CC with what school budget he had, played it himself and never let the kids touch it. Now my buddy has a CC he can't use and needs more BBb tubas but will have to wait. The predecessor was fired, and the school knows now... They chose not to pursue the matter any farther.

I was a band director for 33 years, and being a tuba player, our program always had good instruments for the students. If and when I needed a tuba I borrowed one of the students' horns. I sold my Meinl Weston 30 CC years ago (still wish I hadn't) when kids, house payments, etc. came along. After I retired, I bought my own laquer Mack 410 CC that fills my needs in community band, brass quintet, and tuba ensemble. If I had known what was going to happen with my buddy, I would have bought that horn from him, but my crystal ball was not working at the time.
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