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Hi all,

I’m being very vulnerable in posting this. I need help, and I’m not really sure how to move forward. I would appreciate any and all feedback that can help me. I have a dental issue known as open-bite. Basically, my front teeth do not meet. I bite down my teeth all the way, but there is still a gap in between my top teeth and bottom teeth. During my second year of college, I started to notice that I didn’t articulate properly. Rather than using my tongue, I had been articulating using the back of my throat. I wasn’t sure if there was any correlation between the open-bite and this articulation problem.

I continued forward, not really sure if it was going to be an issue. I mean, I’d made it this far and I think I’m an OK player. I’ve slowed things down to really focus on tongue placement when I articulate. During a masterclass last year, it was pointed out that my mouth moved too much on articulation, which shows that I am still not using my tongue to interrupt the air stream. I think I’m still using the back of my throat to an extent, or maybe even the front of my mouth or lips to articulate, and I don’t want to do that.

I’ve done some research regarding open-bite and tuba playing, but I can’t really find too much hope when it comes to the open-bite. A lot of things online say to consider playing a different instrument, or that there is no hope for being successful. I do not think this is true. I’ve worked too hard to get to this point for me to accept that I’ve reached the limit of my ability as a player because of this issue. A lot of other research that has been done acknowledges it as an issue for brass musicians. I don’t know if these two issues are related or if they are completely separate. I like to think that the open-bite has played some kind of role in my bad articulation habits, but it could very well be that I just learned incorrectly at a young age and it’s what has stuck.

Is there anyone out there who is very knowledgeable in this area? I would appreciate if any comments that are negative could be kept to yourself. I put this out here in hopes that I could be put in contact with someone who could possibly help me take my playing to the next level. We all have our own journeys when it comes to playing. I didn’t realize I had been doing several fundamentals of playing incorrectly until within the past few years.

Thank you!

I’d suggest setting up a Skype lesson with Doug Elliott. He deals with all types of embouchure issues.

I don't have any advice for this situation.

But I too were confronted with 'fundamental' flaws (or how I perceived them) when I reached college. There is definitely a big fish small pond scenario for many folks in highschool, and college is the first time you are surrounded not only by players 'your level' but ones that far pass your level. Additionally you are exposed to master classes, private lessons, etc.

My fatal flaw was my 'innate' sense of time. It's non-existent. I'm not counting in my head while playing, and my 'sense' of time speeds and slows randomly. During highschool I learned competition pieces 'by rote', playing along with pro recordings. And would place 'first' in these competitions. In ensembles, never had an issue -- though off-beat rhythms were pray/blow moments until I could hear how it 'fit in' to the ensemble.

This became very apparent in my first lessons at college, and higher level playing in college wind ensembles. I vividly remember the first time someone in the 'top' ensemble in college asked me to quit tapping my foot because it was erratic

On the other hand, i've played with others who had very non-conventional embrochures who were 100000000000000000000000000x than myself, and they never changed the embrochure. I don't know why they didn't, never asked, but always assumed because 'it worked', and trying to undo would of not been worth it. I could be completely wrong, though.

I still havent' fixed my 'time' issue enitrely, or atleast i'm self-concious. But as an adult, when I returned I have *tried* to spend more and more time playing getchel/bordogni with a metronome, and really focusing on tempo and rythm instead of just playing 'fun' stuff. I think it has helped, but it will take me a long time to feel 'confident' with my innate sense of rythm.

I guess what i'm saying.. Seek guidance of your teacher or another professional who can work with you and give direct feedback before becoming too obsessed/changing things. I suspect there is a balance between 'bad habits which should be changed' vs 'not the normal way, but it is not impeding you, and undoing it is not worth it'. In my case, it was a humbling experience to go from working on solos to first book of getchel with a metronome at the college level Not having a good sense of time was/would impeding me and had to be corrected..


good luck!

tubamike64 wrote:I have a dental issue known as open-bite. Basically, my front teeth do not meet. I bite down my teeth all the way, but there is still a gap in between my top teeth and bottom teeth.

Rather than using my tongue, I had been articulating using the back of my throat. I wasn’t sure if there was any correlation between the open-bite and this articulation problem.

Thank you!

I'm not so sure there's a correlation either. I don't think the teeth touch during normal playing. If you do that trumpet whisper G exercise you deliberately make your teeth touch, and some people can't make a note start that way.

I think you should consult someone who specializes in issues like this. As mentioned above Doug Elliott does Skype and he's sorted out some problems of mine that no amount of practice helped.

This is gonna get a little crazy, but give it a shot- try singing and playing at the same time (or, to REALLY add strangeness-singing and buzzing). I have also had a lot of glottal/throat tension in my playing, and I have found that singing forces me to release that. When I sing and buzz especially, I have to really focus on creating pitch with my lips, and it always feels much different (and better) than playing with throat tension. I think you could try something similar where you sing and play a drone, and then just slowly experiment with how you use your tongue when your throat is essentially “stuck” in an open position.

You would be better off going to a good teacher or maybe even a bad one than listening to me.

But. Sometimes to break a bad habit you need to do something totally different.

There's an interesting book by Haney called Fix the Yips Forever. He's a famous golf teacher who developed yips, probably akin to focal dystonia, and could no longer hit a drive. He knew the correct mechanics for driving better than almost any human, but he could no longer do it right. So he learned a different set of mechanics, modeled somewhat on Moe Norman's single plane swing. If he tried to do the correct modern swing the bad habit would interfere every time, but this new swing was so different he could play again.

So. Maybe this is a really bad idea, but there is something called dorsal tonguing. It is very very different from any tonguing you've done, so it would force you to concentrate on a new mechanism rather than tweaking an old one. Maybe. or maybe it would ruin you for life! Who knows? Many trumpet players use it, a few trombone players. I haven't tried it myself on tuba and have no idea if it would work.

And yep, whatever you do you have to do it for 3 weeks.