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There was some sort of oil around new york awile back that was colored and gummed up the valves, it was not blue juice. I was a big blue juice fan until I recently swithed to Hetman's. I will not be switching back. I like it because it lasts longer, and some how both my piston and rotary valves feel "smoother" and faster. Faster is easy to understand, smoother is a feeling I get which may or may not be something one could quantify, but I like the feeling so I keep buying Hetmans. Peace. ASG

As long as you oil the valves and don't drink the oil,

the brand doesn't matter.

schlepporello wrote:

cjk wrote:As long as you oil the valves and don't drink the oil, the brand doesn't matter.

I wish someone would have told me that sooner.

HAH -- schlepp, that made me giggle aloud.

schlepporello wrote:

cjk wrote:As long as you oil the valves and don't drink the oil, the brand doesn't matter.

I wish someone would have told me that sooner.

Schleppy, you are far past the point of further potentials of brain damage. That makes you a true core member of the TubeNet. What I especially like about you is, that you are fully aware of the number of your remaining brain cells. Do you still have to take off your socks to count them all?

Profanity aside:

I have imported two lots of valve oils directly from the US. The first lot was from a wacko lady, who managed to corrupt a certain management of another brass forum. No good at all, as it made quite a few of my several piston valves work like I had marched them through Sahara.

The second lot was Blue Juice bought from Joe S., whom I despite all sorts of dirty jokes consider one of my two main reference persons on valved conical low brasses (the other one is Chuck(G)).

I hate the stink of Blue Juice, but it makes my valves run. And there is a minimum of gunk building up. It is so pure, that I even dare use it on the keywork of my woodwind instrumenst also.

Klaus

I have tried just about every type of valve oil available, and have been able to observe very little difference. I have used Blue Juice, Al Cass, Hetmans, SpaceFiller, Holton, Besson, Yamaha, and Zaja (plus others I can't remember) over the years. I wasn't really looking for the "perfect" valve oil. Most of these were just what I was able to pick up where I happened to be when I needed oil, or they came with instruments. Now I mainly use Zaja because I can buy it with a scent that I like.

hetmans works well because it doesn't evaporate quickly like Blue Juice...

i use nothing but Hetman products on my tubas, and i only have to oil my pistons about every two months... which is usually when i wash out my horns anyway...

there are a few guys in my band that use Blue Juice and they are oiling their valves like everyday...
finally one of them ran out and asked if i had any oil...i handed him my hetman...and boom he wants to buy some..
same thing happened in the community band i play in...
he said..."geez dude what is this stuff, they have never moved so good since i bought the thing"...
i think he will be picking some up to...

i know i havent oiled my valves in at least about 2 and half months now since i've been busy and haven't cleaned my horns lately... and they are working as silky smooth as they were when i oiled them those 2 months ago...


plus hetman has an anti-corrosive ingredient which wont build up...

http://www.hetman.com/
http://www.hetman.com/products.html
http://www.hetman.com/endorsements.html
http://www.hetman.com/aboutus.html

here is a little link about oil evaporating...

http://www.warburton-usa.com/shawnsmith.htm

see ya,

E

I was a diehard Blue Juice user until last year. I made the switch to Webster's ECO-LUBE. It's great. A little thicker oil than Blue Juice, plus you can drink the whole bottle and not die. <j/k>

It's developed by Roger Webster (prin. cornet - Black Dyke), so it's right quick mind you. Anyway, good stuff - give it a try. It's good enough for Steven Mead.

yep, welcome back, Klaus. Hopefully the diaper-wearing jackass jerk kids who were giving you a hard time, have graduated and moved on to real jobs where they find out what the world is about, and that there are a few people on the planet who know more than they do.

And, heh, you just couldn't stay away, could you?

But back to the topic....on my horn, blue juice simply did not work. The valves clanked and stuck no matter how often I oiled them. Hetmans works great; they are silent and quick enough for me. However, I've heard it said that Hetman's leaves a yellow residue on the valves. Not having taken them out, I don't know. And maybe the clanking and sticking due to Blue Juice indicated they needed work, rather than a different oil. If I could find a backup horn I liked enough to buy, I'd send mine off to a competent repair place to get it worked over.

MA

I've been using Blue Juice in my Weirl for ~9 months and it does make the valves work great! However for about the last 6-7 months I've been having trouble with my tuning slides, e.g. EXTREMELY difficult to move and weeping. I use Hetman's slide grease and since I've been using Blue Juice, it's almost like the slide grease is turning to concrete on the slides I rarely move. The slides I do move regulary have developed a "weeping" condition where after playing a while there's a few drops of moisture either on the bottom of the tuning slide or at the tube/slide interface. The weeping is so bad on the main tuning slide my arm/wrist is almost always wet and if I wear long sleeves the sleeve is generally soaked after playing for an hour or so. I have some knowledge about lubricants and know there are certain types that shouldn't be mixed. If they are, one of three things happen, either they are compatible and neither is affected by the other, or one drys out the other, or they become very thin and "leak" out.
I recently mentioned my problems to one of the trumpet players in my quintet who also uses Blue Juice and he indicated his tuning slide grease is also turning hard and the slides have become hard to move (I don't know what type if grease he uses)
Does anyone know the manufacturer of Blue Juice or know their web site so I can ask what type of slide grease they recommend?
Thanks!

ufoneum wrote:I was a diehard Blue Juice user until last year. I made the switch to Webster's ECO-LUBE. It's great. A little thicker oil than Blue Juice, plus you can drink the whole bottle and not die. <j/k>

It's developed by Roger Webster (prin. cornet - Black Dyke), so it's right quick mind you. Anyway, good stuff - give it a try. It's good enough for Steven Mead.

Where do you get this stuff?

The only place I can find is Steven Mead's site where it sells for almost $10 a bottle.

I am with bloke on the " my valves work fine" bandwagon . I have only tried a few different kinds of valve oils . Blue Juice was one of them. I have not seen any perfomance difference in how fast my valves work because they work just fine . I have gone to back to using the tried and true Al Cass Fast valve oil for one reason and one reason only . It lasts longer than any thing else I have tried . The Blue Juice had to be re-applied every time I played . If I do not play for more then 4 days my valves would be bone dry . I use Al Cass Fast on this cornet that I have . I only pull it out and play it 4 or 5 times a year and I never have to worry about the valves being stuck.

There is thread here on the Tubenet about the viscosity of all the major valve oils being used today . All Cass was one of the thickest . You might want to research it .

I use Al Cass every time I practice or gig. Like Bloke says, if the valves don't need the lube, then lots-o-crud gets rinsed out down the water key.

Tom wrote:

ufoneum wrote:I was a diehard Blue Juice user until last year. I made the switch to Webster's ECO-LUBE. It's great. A little thicker oil than Blue Juice, plus you can drink the whole bottle and not die. <j/k>

It's developed by Roger Webster (prin. cornet - Black Dyke), so it's right quick mind you. Anyway, good stuff - give it a try. It's good enough for Steven Mead.

Where do you get this stuff?

The only place I can find is Steven Mead's site where it sells for almost $10 a bottle.

Up until a few months ago, the only place to order was from the UK, but the WOODWIND/BRASSWIND is now stocking the Webster's EcoLube line of products. They are selling the valve oil for $5/bottle.

- Pat Stuckemeyer

I use Hetman's or Pro-Oil Hybrid, and oil every day. My valves are always silky smooth, but it does help clean them and it will ensure that they stay smooth. A bottle of valve oil costs $4. A hung-up valve in a solo costs much more emotionally.

Been using Blue Juice / Viper Oil at about 4:1 (give or take) for nigh on to a year now in multiple horns. I like the combination. I oil profusely: slides and leadpipe. I do the majority of my oiling before putting the horn to bed after I play. The insides of the slides are clean, clean, clean.

I did some testing with Lamp Oil (liquid paraffin) / Slick 50 in about 3:1 ratio. It lubricated fine but neither of the components evaporates, so you get oil laying around in the horn and dripping out of the valves. I'm not sure what liquid paraffin is. All the Google evidence I could find says it's just another name for mineral oil. But the "Harmful or fatal if swallowed" on the bottle makes me wonder about that because, as far as I know, you can slug down mineral oil if you really need to take a dump. Maybe they mean it's possible to drink enough of it to get the grizzly runs and die from dehydration ... but I digress.

I'm currently testing Blue Juice / Slick 50 at about 3:1. For slides, the Blue Juice evaporates and leaves a nice, slick coat behind if you keep doing it and let it build up. I haven't used it long enough to say how it's going to work overall for valves and keeping the inside of the horn clean. I think it might be possible (don't know for sure) that the leftover Slick 50 might be a little thick for tight rotors.

Future plans include testing charcoal lighter fluid + Slick 50. Those horns from China and India make good guinea pigs.

On my rotary horn I use hetmans and nothing else. I do use blue juice on the school's crappy tubas though because they supposidly gets rid of all the junk and build up. And those tubas and sousa's havent been fixed/cleaned since before I was born. It works alright....but not as well as hetmans. The smell really gets to me. When I have to take a big breath with my mouth close to the mouthpiece, i can feel it later with a soar throat.....I guess I kinda walk into that one myself though.

When I was retiring from the Army and starting my business, I bought a gallon can of generic Blue juice from one of my suppliers, and thought that would be a very good and economical choice for shop use. However, as I started using this on some of the summer school band repairs that I took in that first summer, they just seemed "not quite right". On one piston tuba in particular, I dried out the casings and pistons, and decided to try a bottle of Hetman valve oil that I'd been issued in the Army. The difference was immediately noticeable.

Very soon afterward, I contacted Joe Hetman, who was very patient and courteous, and ready to answer my many questions. He makes a product that is synthetic, non-toxic. And, unlike other synthetics that contain silicone or something worse, Hetman products are designed specifically to be compatible with conventional lubricants. I have been using his products to guarantee a consistent level of quality in all of my repairs ever since

Besides running his Musikwerks business, Joe is a gigging musician, a trumpeter by trade. But, he brings the experience of having been a mechanical engineer and having worked for one of the Big 3 automakers in Detroit to the table, and is not just some tinkerer working in a garage. If enough people are really interested in the science of brass instrument lubrication, we should get him to come and give a clinic or two at ITEC. I have heard him speak at the NAPBIRT (Instrument Repair Association) annual Conference, and he is very thorough in his covering of the subject.

A word about other valve oils; The conventional stuff I frequently see, including the "Music Makes You Smarter" bottles, is denatured, or deodorized kerosene. If you don't mind sniffing a little carcinogen, that's fine. The Al Cass, instead of being made of normal petroleum distillates, is formulated from petroleum in such a way as to remove the less volatile carbon chains, so that when it evaporates, there's NOTHING LEFT. That will help keep things clean, but your protection can be gone before you know it. It was made for tight-fitting trumpet valves, and works fine on a trumpet if you re-oil a lot. But, larger valves in particular need more viscosity that will stay in place, just like a diesel truck needs heavier oil than a small car does. And, some valves are fitted tighter than others, so no one oil viscosity will work best on everything. To that end, Hetman has developed about 23 different lubricants for various wind instruments. When I saw that he made 3 separate slide oils for non-stationary slides, I though he must be kidding. But, it works for me, so I continue to use it.

I have heard a few comments about yellow deposits, particularly from rotor-valve instrument owners. I have seen an occasional bit of yellow in the oil under the back caps, and I just wipe it out and apply a little more oil. I'd suggest that if your instrument is clean-enough, you could probably get away with using most anything on it, but slopping a lot of oil into your valves on a daily basis will probably shorten the life of your slide grease, so be sure and wipe-down and re-grease your slides often, too. If oil or water is leaking through your slides, they are too loose - get it checked out.

I personally like to fully chem-clean and bright-dip my horn, dry it out completely, then lube it with slide grease and the appropriate valve oil, and then basically forget about it, except for re-oiling about twice a month.

I love what hetmans has done to my horn. I haven't tryed the slide grease though....does that work just as well?

Bloke,
Goodness! With all the suppliers you have in Memphis, there's no tellin' what you've been cooking-up in your shop!

Now, if I could just get some red-beans-and-rice-flavored valve oil......;^)