Tone - a historical perspective

[2ba4t]

A frequent and controversial topic here. However, the 'top ever tuba players' posts tend to centre on their sound. Here I do not mean their sound in the orchestra because this depends so much upon fashion and nationality. The vast, black velvety cushion swept the world 40 years ago and the huge instruments that produce it - and good for them. It is now de rigour. And, yes, there has been the last two decades' grad return to narrow-bore and smaller instruments by some - and good for them.

I am interested rather in the soloist sound. Old recordings of even the huge instruments giants - Bill Bell and Arnold Jacobs - show an interesting approach to vibrato and a 'sweet' sound.

Gene Pokorny for me is the master today of musicianship and tone. However I was taught by Arthur Doyle, a leading euphonium virtuoso of the British Brass band world. He was a contemporary of Lyndon Baglin and dear Trevor Groom. {I bought my first 4 valver from him.] This is one source of the famous Fletch tone. This sound influenced John Fletcher and actually he went to Mr Doyle to prepare the VW concerto.

This was all in the Jurassic and is a lost world. It seems so foreign to today's ears. However dare I ask whether modern players even have any time for this sort of sound? Listen to Trevor Groom's old recordings, Lyndon Baglin and then graduate to Dennis Brain's 'corrected' [less vibrato] sound. Vibrato was, even in the 1940s frowned upon in orchestras and dismissed as Brass Band bleating. [My teacher was in the RAF band with Aubrey and Dennis Brain and spoke of having to master the 'vast' F tuba (now being built by wonderful Wessex) and learning to lose his vibrato.]

Trevor Groom is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg57_j-G8JI" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank. Lyndon Baglin was a very tradition Welsh player but echoes the earlier generation to him - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg57_j-G8JI" target="_blank" target="_blank. Fletch mentions this in his whimsical 'lecture' in 1984 at an early TUBA gathering. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtanRWudP-s" target="_blank" target="_blank

As a dinosaur I am rather fond of that sound - and people always comment on the singing sound - as well as my mistakes.

[brendanige]

I've always enjoyed the vibrato. It's also difficult because I don't believe players sound as portrayed in "old recordings". I think a study was done where they recorded "big name" players on old recording equipment and the result was similar to what older folk sounded like in recordings. I have also always been partial to narrow, faster vibrato and have never considered it "british" or "old." Most classical musicians (strings, vocalist, woodwinds) use a narrow fast vibrato.

[windshieldbug]

[Chris Mayer]

for horn, there is a style survey of famous horn players and their respective equipment from 1964 and 2010 including sound/video files

https://www.hornsociety.org/multimedia- ... le-surveys" target="_blank" target="_blank

is there something similar / could there be something similar for tubas ?

regards

Chris

[Wes Krygsman]

Brendan,
I saw something similar to what you describe. Steve Dillon shared a video from when he and a sound engineer recorded Joe Alessi using Arthur Pryor’s trombone onto a wax cylinder. I believe it was during the testing phase for the “Slide Partners” Album that came out with Mr. Alessi playing duets with Pryor. When they played it back, Joe was very surprised to find out that it was actually his own playback and not Pryor on that particular passage. They all said “wow” and one of them said something to the effect of “he probably sounded very similar to Joe in person, but the recording technology couldn’t capture such a large brilliant sound.”

Of course, it made me think of how much old great tuba sound we were missing out on.

[tubeast]

That´s interesting. On a side note:
Look for this guy on Youtube:
Max Raabe & Palast Orchester.
https://www.palast-orchester.de/

This singer has trained his voice so it resembles old 78-recordings from early 1930s.
They are Performing old Songs as well as new Repertoire in the same style.
There is a growing Scene "reenacting" Music and ballroom culture from this era.

Fine musicians and cool, humorous Texts.

[tubeast]

Oh... You know These guys, of Course, because they have performed at well known American venues:
Symphony Hall, Chicago,
Davies Hall, San Francisco,
Carnegie Hall, NY