Getting the low notes under control questions

[Sandlapper]

I am an old guy playing on a King 2341 (the new model) for the last 9 years and really like the horn. Before this Covid-19 mess hit I was playing in two community concert bands, a Summer Band, a German band, church, some low brass quartet and a brass quintet. During the last year several pieces of music were played that was written for notes below the 4 ledger line low F. This horn has an awesome tone down to that F, but below that it does not sing and my volume volume significantly decreases, and I'm at least 40 cents or more sharp as well. Pulling the first slide only gets me part of the way in tune but not enough to play in that octave especially in the quintet. I really like playing down in the cellar when the opportunities presents.

Question 1: is there something I can do practice wise to strengthen that low range? What would you recommend?

Question 2: I am wondering if MAW valves would help with this? I have seen only one sort of passing review on TubeNet of someone with a 2341 who said that he really couldn't tell a big difference on his horn although there are a number of pro players who have raved about this modification on different horns. I like this King and the MAW valves would be cheaper than getting a 5 valve horn.

Thanks for your help.

[Art Hovey]

1. Practice more. In the low register it is especially important to open your mouth as wide as possible as you would in pronouncing "Oooh". For me it also helps to move my lower jaw forward.
Use 12&4 for low Eb. Kings have a pretty good "false pedal Eb (with no valves down), but 124 sounds a little better. For the D below that Eb, 234 is spot on. You can also use the false pedal with the second valve. For Db use 134 or false pedal with the first valve. For C you either have to pull a lot of slides with 1234 or use 12 with the false pedal. You can also get a false pedal B with 23. (Not easy, but rarely needed.)
2. I don't know if MAW pistons would help on a King, but I suspect that they would be a lot of money for a very small improvement.

[Sandlapper]

Art, thanks for the recommendations and suggestions for alternatives of what I was doing. The answer to the old story of how do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice son, practice. I will definitely be spending time with trying those out and a tuner. Have a great new year. John

[Sandlapper]

Got a chance to sit down with the horn and try out Art's recommendations. Wow, the false pedal were the closest to being in tune on those notes I think I have ever come. Need to get the sound of those notes in my head so I don't over shoot the pitches. Open the mouth helped with the E and Eb using 124 as well as 24 for E natural. Had not realized how bad of a habit I had developed there.

Art. Thank you very much.

[Reptilian]

Now that you've improved your tone and intonation with that good advice, I recommend playing some of your favorite bordoni or other lyrical etudes down an octave. Helped me out tremendously. Good luck!

[Sandlapper]

An excellent idea. Thanks.

[happyroman]

The Brass Gym, by Sam Pilafian and Pat Sheridan, is an excellent resource for developing full register playing, from the extreme low range to the extreme upper register. The accompanying CD of Sam and Pat playing the exercises in octaves is worth the price of the book all by itself.

https://www.focus-on-music.com/products/the-brass-gym

[Michael Grant]

Years ago, when was studying with Fritz Kaenzig, I made a list of the things I felt I needed to work on to present to Prof. Kaenzig for my first lesson. On that list was low register. When we got to that he asked me how much time I spent practicing the low register. I made a somewhat meek face with a response something like “not a lot”. He responded “enough said”. Then we put together some things I could work on. From that point on, as long as I practiced the low register (as part of a regular practice routine) it was never a concern. I suggest starting with the publications by Encore Music Publishing (Wes Jacobs / former tubist in the Detroit Symphony). Here is a link to his first book. The Low Legato Studies are also good. You can also play etudes that you already know down an octave.

Best of luck.


https://www.encoremupub.com/low-register-studies/

[happyroman]

Years ago, when was studying with Fritz Kaenzig, I made a list of the things I felt I needed to work on to present to Prof. Kaenzig for my first lesson. On that list was low register. When we got to that he asked me how much time I spent practicing the low register. I made a somewhat meek face with a response something like “not a lot”. He responded “enough said”. Then we put together some things I could work on. From that point on, as long as I practiced the low register (as part of a regular practice routine) it was never a concern. I suggest starting with the publications by Encore Music Publishing (Wes Jacobs / former tubist in the Detroit Symphony). Here is a link to his first book. The Low Legato Studies are also good. You can also play etudes that you already know down an octave.

Best of luck.


https://www.encoremupub.com/low-register-studies/

That's really interesting. Here's a link to an interview Fritz did a while back on his studies with Arnold Jacobs. He discusses his first lesson where he told Mr. Jacobs one of the things he wanted to work on was low register. Their conversation was remarkably similar to the one you mention above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9quZqRp40

[Sandlapper]

Thank you all, good information! Touché on the Fritz Kaenzig video. Ten minutes work a practice session isn't going to do it is it. Thanks guys. I played a concert the first week of March last year and haven't touched the horn again until a week ago. The low register issue was very frustrating then, and when I figured I need to get to work on playing again that was something that I wanted to work on but really wasn't sure how to go about it. I really appreciate the observations and wisdom that y'all have shared and its been very helpful in getting a sense of what I need to do and how to go about it.

Best wishes for a good new year. Stay safe, and again Thanks.

John

[Michael Grant]

That's really interesting. Here's a link to an interview Fritz did a while back on his studies with Arnold Jacobs. He discusses his first lesson where he told Mr. Jacobs one of the things he wanted to work on was low register. Their conversation was remarkably similar to the one you mention above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9quZqRp40
[/quote]

That’s funny. I hadn’t seen that video. Thanks for sharing. Here’s another funny lesson I had with Prof Kaenzig. I used to move my right arm a lot when I played (I think I had Tourette’s arm). Prof Kaenzig would keep reminding me to not do that. One lesson, he stood up, walked over and said “keep playing” while at the same time leaning into my right side. I stopped playing and asked him what he was doing. He said he didn’t have any duct tape to tape my right arm against my torso so until I stopped flopping my right arm all over the place he is just going to have to stand there. We both had a good laugh and I made a concerted effort to stop moving my right arm. I eventually got control of it. Much like Prof Kaenzig with Arnold Jacobs, I never left his studio without learning something new that improved my playing. Often, I would scramble to write everything down he said, trying frantically to remember it all. Good stuff.