Conn Sousaphone numbers

[Hank74]

I wanted to ask anyone with expertise on the Conn Sousaphones what do the numbers mean on their models. I've seen 20K, 14K, 36K, etc. Is there a special meaning to a number? Is there a significance among higher or lower numbers. I'm considering getting a Conn Sousa and would like to know more before making a decision.

[panderdoti]

They're just model numbers that conn uses to differentiate the horns. The Major ones I've seen are

14K- 4/4 sousaphone, 24inch bell from what I've seen, similar in bore to a king 2350 .689. Some later models are just rebadged Kings
36K- Fiberglass 14K
20K- 5/4 sousaphone "Grand" .734 bore 26inch bell with short action valve set.
22K- fiberglass 20K
38K- I think these are basically 20k's with standard valves.
40K- The current ones are 4 valve 20K's. Not sure about this model historically though

[Dave Hayami]

Hello,
I believe that the "OLDER" Conn 14K/36K had a bore size of .734.(Same as the long stroke 38K)
The "Newer" Re-Badged King's/14K have the .689.
dave

[iiipopes]

I have played many Conn BBb sousaphones over the last forty-five years, including 14K's, 36K's, 20K's, 22K's, a real pre-WWII 38K, and I currently have on loan a Cavalier, which is the mid-30's version of a "student" souzy, which later became the 14K.
1) The 14K sousaphone and its relatives, the Pan-American, the Cavalier, the "lightweight" souzys, etc., all have the .734 standard valve block and usually the 24-inch bell.
2) The 20K (metal) & 22K (fiberglass) souzys have the .734 bore, but with the larger diameter bugle, short throw valves, and the 26-inch bell. It is not the "Grand." That designation is for a pre-WWII souzy.
3) The "real" "pre-cyborg" 36K is the fiberglass version of the 14K with the same valve block and 24-inch bell. The post-cyborg 36K is a re-branded King souzy with the .687 bore, different configuration valve block, and 26-inch bell.
4) the old pre-WWIi 38K is its own souzy. It has a large taper bugle, but different from a 20K, and it has the standard .734 valve block. Most had a 24-inch bell, many had the gold-wash interior. This, along with the 40K and a couple others, were called the "grand."
5) other notable BBb souzys: the pre-WWII 40K is the 38K with four valves; and there were a few "grand jumbo" souzys with even larger bores and bells.
6) No experience with Eb souzys.
Yes, I actually typed this from memory, then went to the Conn Loyalist to get this link:
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnSousaModels.html

[panderdoti]

I have played many Conn BBb sousaphones over the last forty-five years, including 14K's, 36K's, 20K's, 22K's, a real pre-WWII 38K, and I currently have on loan a Cavalier, which is the mid-30's version of a "student" souzy, which later became the 14K.
1) The 14K sousaphone and its relatives, the Pan-American, the Cavalier, the "lightweight" souzys, etc., all have the .734 standard valve block and usually the 24-inch bell.
2) The 20K (metal) & 22K (fiberglass) souzys have the .734 bore, but with the larger diameter bugle, short throw valves, and the 26-inch bell. It is not the "Grand." That designation is for a pre-WWII souzy.
3) The "real" "pre-cyborg" 36K is the fiberglass version of the 14K with the same valve block and 24-inch bell. The post-cyborg 36K is a re-branded King souzy with the .687 bore, different configuration valve block, and 26-inch bell.
4) the old pre-WWIi 38K is its own souzy. It has a large taper bugle, but different from a 20K, and it has the standard .734 valve block. Most had a 24-inch bell, many had the gold-wash interior. This, along with the 40K and a couple others, were called the "grand."
5) other notable BBb souzys: the pre-WWII 40K is the 38K with four valves; and there were a few "grand jumbo" souzys with even larger bores and bells.
6) No experience with Eb souzys.
Yes, I actually typed this from memory, then went to the Conn Loyalist to get this link:
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnSousaModels.html

I stand corrected!

[toobagrowl]

Just wanted to add that the original Elkhart-made Conn sousas all use the same neck/bits, whether 14k, 20k, etc.
The Elkhart-made 14k has a female bell collar at just over 6 inches in diameter; the 20k (Elkhart and modern Eastlake) has a female bell collar at just over 7 inches in diameter

Those vintage Elkhart Conn and H.N. White (King) sousas are special instruments. Wish there were more opportunities and sousa-friendly groups I could use my vintage 14k in

[iiipopes]

Just wanted to add that the original Elkhart-made Conn sousas all use the same neck/bits, whether 14k, 20k, etc.
The Elkhart-made 14k has a female bell collar at just over 6 inches in diameter; the 20k (Elkhart and modern Eastlake) has a female bell collar at just over 7 inches in diameter

Those vintage Elkhart Conn and H.N. White (King) sousas are special instruments. Wish there were more opportunities and sousa-friendly groups I could use my vintage 14k in

Likewise with the Cavalier (14K predecessor) that slumbers peacefully in my music room.