Solti's Ring (1958-1965 Decca VPO Recording)

[Seb Rowland]

I've seen some other posts referencing Solti and the VPO's famous Decca recording of the Ring Cycle, but still have a couple questions about it I'm hoping some of you might be able to clear up:

1. It is Bob Tucci playing the CC horn alongside the other VPO tubist playing a large rotary F, correct? I couldn't tell if the other VPO tubist was playing a large F or a slimmer Kaiser BBb, seems like the F alongside Tucci on the C would make more sense. Anyone know what the name of the other VPO tubist on this recording is btw?

2. I'm currently looking for the original vinyl LPs, and found a couple on eBay, but as with other musical finds on eBay, I'm a little skeptical and don't want to invest $120+ in a set that might be scratched, warped, or worse. Does anyone have any recommendations of where else would be good to look for these?

3. The BBC documentary that captured the production of Solti's Decca recordings, "The Golden Ring", does anyone know where to find a full copy/recording of it? I've seen the German language version of it that someone posted to YouTube, and the German narration seems to be worded pretty similarly to clips of the English version that I've seen (native speakers, correct me if I'm wrong), but wasn't sure if this is the same footage as the full English version you can buy used on Amazon. A little nitpicky I know, but would someone be able to verify? Here's the link for the German version on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwFcxF3GYPk

Thanks in advance for fielding my questions! I love this recording and would love to learn as much about it as I can.

[macbil]

Looks like a young Tucci sitting beside the horns. Never noticed him before . Just the old timer playing at the back.
I have the BBC VHS tape but I haven't played it for years since tape is old hat and everything went to CD for a while but it's old hat now . I go to You Tube instead and plumb it into a Sonos box which is good, but I only really do it to see the singers and the players.Its in English and its very interesting. The German version appears to be the same. If I want to listen to the music , then I get out my Decca set of the Ring ,from which that recording is taken , pull the drapes , pour a glass of 20 year old Armagnac and get lost for the next 4/5 hours. The Decca set is first class with the best singers of that era but because they only recorded a very limited amount of music each day(15 minutes was a good day), its highly polished and not necessarily what you hear in an Opera House. There are other recordings which give a truer picture as to what you hear in a good house.
The Decca vinyls have been remastered and then I think, remastered another time . I have the first remastering and pumped through a good Bose system, they are more than adequate, really good in fact. I'd pass on the vinyls.
My son pointed me in the direction of the Bayreuth centenary production on You Tube with Boulez and some absolutely terrific singers a while ago and I spent some time with that. It 's live and mightily impressive . Some wonderful heavy brass playing.
There's a whole Wagner industry out there with recordings and visuals, probably more than any other composer. The only way is to jump in and rummage about until you find what pleases you and then order it. Not many stores will carry a full box set of the Ring. I think you probably have to live in a big city for that. Amazon is the answer.
A big house will put it on ,or one of the Opera Dramas, from time to time. Its the best way to see/hear /experience it. Be prepared not to speak for the next 2/3 days and to walk about like one of the Undead. Its worth it though. You get the full effect.
Mind you, a good recording is still great thing.
Good listening and viewing.

[macbil]

DVD -- not CD. Idiot. My kids did all this for me.

[Seb Rowland]

Looks like a young Tucci sitting beside the horns. Never noticed him before . Just the old timer playing at the back.
I have the BBC VHS tape but I haven't played it for years since tape is old hat and everything went to CD for a while but it's old hat now . I go to You Tube instead and plumb it into a Sonos box which is good, but I only really do it to see the singers and the players.Its in English and its very interesting. The German version appears to be the same. If I want to listen to the music , then I get out my Decca set of the Ring ,from which that recording is taken , pull the drapes , pour a glass of 20 year old Armagnac and get lost for the next 4/5 hours. The Decca set is first class with the best singers of that era but because they only recorded a very limited amount of music each day(15 minutes was a good day), its highly polished and not necessarily what you hear in an Opera House. There are other recordings which give a truer picture as to what you hear in a good house.
The Decca vinyls have been remastered and then I think, remastered another time . I have the first remastering and pumped through a good Bose system, they are more than adequate, really good in fact. I'd pass on the vinyls.
My son pointed me in the direction of the Bayreuth centenary production on You Tube with Boulez and some absolutely terrific singers a while ago and I spent some time with that. It 's live and mightily impressive . Some wonderful heavy brass playing.
There's a whole Wagner industry out there with recordings and visuals, probably more than any other composer. The only way is to jump in and rummage about until you find what pleases you and then order it. Not many stores will carry a full box set of the Ring. I think you probably have to live in a big city for that. Amazon is the answer.
A big house will put it on ,or one of the Opera Dramas, from time to time. Its the best way to see/hear /experience it. Be prepared not to speak for the next 2/3 days and to walk about like one of the Undead. Its worth it though. You get the full effect.
Mind you, a good recording is still great thing.
Good listening and viewing.

DVD -- not CD. Idiot. My kids did all this for me.

Thanks for your reply macbil! That definitely sorts things out. I usually listen to it on Spotify, a huge Solti opera album was released awhile back, including all of his Ring Cycle Decca recordings, I wonder if that has the remastered version you mentioned or the original. My grandfather gave me a record player he'd had since the 70s, and I was looking for something to play on it (besides the Latvian folk songs and Neil Diamond records that he and my grandmother sent along with it), and occasionally see a beat-up old boxed set of the Decca Ring come up on Amazon and eBay. Saw one for as low as $50, but the old saying of "you get what you pay for" came into my head, so I held off. Though an evening with Armagnac and Wagner does make a compelling argument for picking up the vinyls...

I was in NYC a couple years ago and a friend and I managed to get tickets to the Met's production of The Valkyrie (though standing room in new leather shoes was a mistake), it was pretty world-shattering. The man standing next to me said he flew his dad and sons over from Austria to see the whole production, but got himself the cheap ticket to save a few bucks. He insisted that the wooden seats in the hall in Bayreuth made it infinitely better, and were not uncomfortable in the least (though I'd take the Met's plush armchairs any day). To see the full cycle at the festival in Bayreuth is on my bucket list, though I'm sure it is for many.

Thanks again for your advice, really helpful!

[GeoffC_UK]

Here: https://www.base.com/buy/product/the-go ... 743196.htm
Or: https://www.moviesandgamesonline.co.uk/ ... i-dvd.html
Or: https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/film ... 000631A8VG
You'd have to check with seller if it's in english.

It doesn't seem to be in the BBC archive collection: https://shop.bfi.org.uk/dvd-blu-ray/bfi ... chive.html

For the really rare recordings in UK I would head here, FYI only: https://sounds.bl.uk/?gclid=CjwKCAiA6aS ... UEQAvD_BwE

[macbil]

Seb-- I understand Bayreuth is next to impossible to get tickets for. You have to apply for years before you are considered. I'm not sure what opera tours might give access so outside of that or being a diplomat or politician , it could be difficult . Bayreuth has awful seats I believe , so the thought of 5/6 hours on one of them promises a level of discomfort I would't relish.
More accessible are Vienna and Munich which will do it just as well and you have two of Europe's finest Cities at your disposal, should you choose . What's not to like?
Good Luck.

[Seb Rowland]

Here: https://www.base.com/buy/product/the-go ... 743196.htm
Or: https://www.moviesandgamesonline.co.uk/ ... i-dvd.html
Or: https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/film ... 000631A8VG
You'd have to check with seller if it's in english.

It doesn't seem to be in the BBC archive collection: https://shop.bfi.org.uk/dvd-blu-ray/bfi ... chive.html

For the really rare recordings in UK I would head here, FYI only: https://sounds.bl.uk/?gclid=CjwKCAiA6aS ... UEQAvD_BwE

Thanks Geoff!

[Seb Rowland]

Seb-- I understand Bayreuth is next to impossible to get tickets for. You have to apply for years before you are considered. I'm not sure what opera tours might give access so outside of that or being a diplomat or politician , it could be difficult . Bayreuth has awful seats I believe , so the thought of 5/6 hours on one of them promises a level of discomfort I would't relish.
More accessible are Vienna and Munich which will do it just as well and you have two of Europe's finest Cities at your disposal, should you choose . What's not to like?
Good Luck.

Ah that's a shame. Well a Wiener Staatsoper production or one in Munich would be great to see as well I'm sure!

[finnbogi]

Seb-- I understand Bayreuth is next to impossible to get tickets for. You have to apply for years before you are considered. I'm not sure what opera tours might give access so outside of that or being a diplomat or politician , it could be difficult . Bayreuth has awful seats I believe , so the thought of 5/6 hours on one of them promises a level of discomfort I would't relish.
More accessible are Vienna and Munich which will do it just as well and you have two of Europe's finest Cities at your disposal, should you choose . What's not to like?

I watched the entire Ring in Vienna three years ago and can wholeheartedly recommend that, the singers were great and the orchestra absolutely fantastic. Wiener Staatsoper will be streaming the same production, albeit recordings from 2016, later this month.
See streaming schedule: https://www.wiener-staatsoper.at/en/sta ... -schedule/

I have also heard that Bayreuth has awful seats and that the theatre gets very hot and stuffy during performances, but I am still planning to see the Ring there at some point!

[Robert Tucci]

Seb,

In fact, I had the pleasure, honor and work involved in part of the Solti "Ring". My contributions were for "Götterdämmerung" and "Walküre". It was an amazing production, the VPO could play the music in the dark and the vocalists were monumental. I have a full set of LP records and can offer these to you. Note that the "Götterdämmerung" one is mono... Should you have access to a four-track tape recorder, I have this (Götterdämmerung) as a Decca four-track set,also the "Walküre" on four-track unopened.

For the Götterdämmerung I used a "Holton" CC, for the "Waklüre", a fairly-large vintage "Conn", also in CC. The VPO management was intent on not having me seen on the BBC television production. The Decca engineers really like my CC-tubas, with their strong fundamental in the sound. They said: "That is what we make records from.".

All history now, it was a great and exciting time. Later, here at the Bavarian State Opera, we had another fine production, with Wolfgang Sawallisch. Many of the vocal artists were the same: Birgit Nielsen, Hans Hotter und Gottlob Frick for example. This CD-set, live recordings, should be available and yes, I was a good boy then and used a large BBb-tuba.

Best regards,

Bob Tucci
Munich

[Seb Rowland]

Seb,

In fact, I had the pleasure, honor and work involved in part of the Solti "Ring". My contributions were for "Götterdämmerung" and "Walküre". It was an amazing production, the VPO could play the music in the dark and the vocalists were monumental. I have a full set of LP records and can offer these to you. Note that the "Götterdämmerung" one is mono... Should you have access to a four-track tape recorder, I have this (Götterdämmerung) as a Decca four-track set,also the "Walküre" on four-track unopened.

For the Götterdämmerung I used a "Holton" CC, for the "Waklüre", a fairly-large vintage "Conn", also in CC. The VPO management was intent on not having me seen on the BBC television production. The Decca engineers really like my CC-tubas, with their strong fundamental in the sound. They said: "That is what we make records from.".

All history now, it was a great and exciting time. Later, here at the Bavarian State Opera, we had another fine production, with Wolfgang Sawallisch. Many of the vocal artists were the same: Birgit Nielsen, Hans Hotter und Gottlob Frick for example. This CD-set, live recordings, should be available and yes, I was a good boy then and used a large BBb-tuba.

Best regards,

Bob Tucci
Munich

Thanks so much for your reply, Mr. Tucci!

Such a historical and memorable experience to be a part of I'm sure, very interesting to hear someone talk first-hand about it. Hearing the recordings of the VPO and Birgit Nilsson during the "Vengeance Trio" and Gottlob Frick on the "Hoiho! Hoiho! Ihr Gibichsmannen" are especially powerful I think.

As for the LPs you mentioned having, thank you for your generosity. I only have access to a record player, so I wouldn't be able to make use of the four-tracks you have unfortunately. But thank you for your offer on the LPs, I am definitely interested in those.

Interesting that you were able to use CCs with the VPO, though I agree with the Decca engineers, it does make the low brass sound fuller. There's a couple shots in the documentary on Götterdämmerung with you as well as the other tubist fortunately, I was wondering if you had any idea what kind of horn he was playing on?

Thanks again,

Seb

[Robert Tucci]

Seb,

As is known, John Culshaw, Chief Artists and Repetoire manager at Decca at the time, was the true mastermind behind the first complete recording of the "Ring". That is, with the same orchestra, vocal artists and conductor. An immense amount of preparation was involved and schedules were such that there was little or no room for error. Part of John´s work fell into the category of prudent English diplomacy.. as with all orchestras there were people who had to be put in place this way or that. He was a gentleman of the highest order, had spent years studying Richard Wagner and attended just about everything in Bayreuth after WWII.

The other aspects were technical. Decca had some excellent engineers, Kenneth Wilkenson ("Wilke") for example. For the later part of the production, Götterdämmerung und Die Walküre, completely new equipment was designed, built by Siemens and Halsky, and installed at the Sofien-Saal. There was much work above and beyond rehearsals and the actual sessions.

The "other tuba player" player, Karl Schädl, had a large Czeck BBb-tuba, Amati or the likes. He was not much of a contrabass tuba player having specialized in sounding like a buzzsaw on the small Viennese (actually an old Berliner) F-Tuba. The orchestra was set up as in the orchestra pit at the opera: woodwinds and horns on one side, trumpet and trombones on the other, also tympani. This had me with the horns and Wagner tubas most of the time and Herr Schadl with the trombones, at least for one or two of the sessions.

This all took place almost sixty years ago. Really, all the tuba parts in the "Ring" can be played in 15 minutes; working with and listening to that great orchestra and a manificent vocal ensemble was quite an experience.

FYI, the tubists for Rheingold and Siegfried were from Berlin. Herr Schädl could not handle this. "Siegfried" was played by both as can be heard on the hyped-up recording of the 1st scene of the second act. That was before my time in Vienna. I did play Siegfried with Herbert von Karajan at the Staatsoper though, with just a short stage rehearsal. There were several great productions at the time, produced and directed by von Karajan. These included FROSCH (Die Frau ohne Schatten), Elektra and Boris Gudonow. The two latter wre carried over to the Salzburg Festival in 1964 and 1965. Take my word for it: these were incredable performances. Herbert von Karajan was a master organizer, assured that the best people were involved throughout all aspects of his productions. This was an exciting time for a young tubist from a small town in Pennsylvania. My teacher, Arnold Jacobs, had me well-prepared. In those years and with a full operatiac repertoire at hand, I spend most of my time practicing.

Later, here in Munich, I used the BBb-tuba for much work, in particular the "Ring" which was performed four times a year.

Bob

[Seb Rowland]

Seb,

As is known, John Culshaw, Chief Artists and Repetoire manager at Decca at the time, was the true mastermind behind the first complete recording of the "Ring". That is, with the same orchestra, vocal artists and conductor. An immense amount of preparation was involved and schedules were such that there was little or no room for error. Part of John´s work fell into the category of prudent English diplomacy.. as with all orchestras there were people who had to be put in place this way or that. He was a gentleman of the highest order, had spent years studying Richard Wagner and attended just about everything in Bayreuth after WWII.

The other aspects were technical. Decca had some excellent engineers, Kenneth Wilkenson ("Wilke") for example. For the later part of the production, Götterdämmerung und Die Walküre, completely new equipment was designed, built by Siemens and Halsky, and installed at the Sofien-Saal. There was much work above and beyond rehearsals and the actual sessions.

The "other tuba player" player, Karl Schädl, had a large Czeck BBb-tuba, Amati or the likes. He was not much of a contrabass tuba player having specialized in sounding like a buzzsaw on the small Viennese (actually an old Berliner) F-Tuba. The orchestra was set up as in the orchestra pit at the opera: woodwinds and horns on one side, trumpet and trombones on the other, also tympani. This had me with the horns and Wagner tubas most of the time and Herr Schadl with the trombones, at least for one or two of the sessions.

This all took place almost sixty years ago. Really, all the tuba parts in the "Ring" can be played in 15 minutes; working with and listening to that great orchestra and a manificent vocal ensemble was quite an experience.

FYI, the tubists for Rheingold and Siegfried were from Berlin. Herr Schädl could not handle this. "Siegfried" was played by both as can be heard on the hyped-up recording of the 1st scene of the second act. That was before my time in Vienna. I did play Siegfried with Herbert von Karajan at the Staatsoper though, with just a short stage rehearsal. There were several great productions at the time, produced and directed by von Karajan. These included FROSCH (Die Frau ohne Schatten), Elektra and Boris Gudonow. The two latter wre carried over to the Salzburg Festival in 1964 and 1965. Take my word for it: these were incredable performances. Herbert von Karajan was a master organizer, assured that the best people were involved throughout all aspects of his productions. This was an exciting time for a young tubist from a small town in Pennsylvania. My teacher, Arnold Jacobs, had me well-prepared. In those years and with a full operatiac repertoire at hand, I spend most of my time practicing.

Later, here in Munich, I used the BBb-tuba for much work, in particular the "Ring" which was performed four times a year.

Bob

Thanks again for your reply, Mr. Tucci!

The scenes in the BBC documentary definitely portray John Culshaw in that light of the "diplomatic Englishman" I'm sure he was. It's interesting watching him balance Solti's requests and his recording team's equipment and all at the same time, I'm sure the documentary doesn't do it justice.

That makes sense. I thought the horn he had on Götterdämmerung seemed too big to be an F tuba. I've played on an old 60s Czech tuba that had a similar bell shape to the one he had, though I'm sure his was a bit older. Interesting they had you both sat so far apart.

Interesting, were they brought in from the Berliner Philharmoniker or the Staatsoper? I've heard that scene you've mentioned, I had wondered if it was in fact multiple players playing that excerpt.

A little off topic, but what horns are you playing on now in Munich?

Working with Solti, Karajan, and Arnold Jacobs (of course), what a privilege. Thank you for taking the time to tell about it, I find the history of that recording fascinating, as I'm sure many others do too.

Many thanks for your time,

Seb

[Robert Tucci]

Seb,

An interesting note on the "other tuba player". He was using a large BBb-tuba and having two of us there was as mentioned, due to the horn section on one side and the trumpet and trombone section on the other side of the orchestra. During actual performances of the "Ring", at least at the Bavarian State Opera, we would move from one side to the other to acccomodate the orchestration.

At any rate and as you know, there is a tuba part in the Rhine Journey (Siegfrieds Rheinfahrt) with running eighth notes based on an Eb arpeggio and at the end, a descending Eb scale. On the first run through we were a bit messy. Solti stopped and requested "die Tuben bitte". I had marked the parts for breathing so that the passage could be played as written. On the "Personal Request" run through, this came off as desired, We played all the notes and at an acceptable volume and temp and received a short applaus from the orchestra for this.

On the actual recording, whatever happened with the tuba part was buried.

A few of us were permitted to listen to the playbacks in the control room, usually reserved for Solti and the singers. There, with all that then state-of-the-art equipment Decca had, the results were fantastic. Decca had new Studer tape machines and were later one of the first to use Dolby processing, albeit not for the final sessions (Walküre). Solti and John Culshaw decided what was to be used, with the vocal parts the absolute top priority.

Putting what was an immense amount of recorded sound into the narrow tracks of LP records was a high price to pay; some or much of what was incredable and unique material could not be accomodated.

Once during a visit to London, Gordon Parry of Decca gave me a tour of their facilities at 165 Broadhurst Gardens. In the basement, in a massive vault, the master tapes of hundreds of recordings were stored. If those have been or would be remastered into digital technology, the Solti Ring would come alive yet another time. The four-track tape editions (London Records in the US at the time) are much better. Gordon Parry once mentioned that the Decca LP quality was better than the London US pressings.

Alas, they are all gone: the great team at Decca and most to those fantastic singers. As for the tuba player writing these notes, he went over 80 recently, not on the Autobahn.

The "Holton" tuba I had now belongs to John Elliot, We had a great meeting of the formers owners, minus our deceased colleage John Fletcher, at the Savage Club in London in 2013. Prior to that and one of the reasons for the trip was that Jimmy Brown, Decca´s master technician, was still alíve, 93 years of age at the time.

Decca produced some really good recordings, the Los Angeles "Planets" is superb, truly exciting from beginning to end. The Chicago Symphony recordings made at the Krannert Center in Urbana, Illinois are also excellent. These were done later, the technology was even better.

All water down the Danube now!

Bob

[Seb Rowland]

Seb,

An interesting note on the "other tuba player". He was using a large BBb-tuba and having two of us there was as mentioned, due to the horn section on one side and the trumpet and trombone section on the other side of the orchestra. During actual performances of the "Ring", at least at the Bavarian State Opera, we would move from one side to the other to acccomodate the orchestration.

At any rate and as you know, there is a tuba part in the Rhine Journey (Siegfrieds Rheinfahrt) with running eighth notes based on an Eb arpeggio and at the end, a descending Eb scale. On the first run through we were a bit messy. Solti stopped and requested "die Tuben bitte". I had marked the parts for breathing so that the passage could be played as written. On the "Personal Request" run through, this came off as desired, We played all the notes and at an acceptable volume and temp and received a short applaus from the orchestra for this.

On the actual recording, whatever happened with the tuba part was buried.

A few of us were permitted to listen to the playbacks in the control room, usually reserved for Solti and the singers. There, with all that then state-of-the-art equipment Decca had, the results were fantastic. Decca had new Studer tape machines and were later one of the first to use Dolby processing, albeit not for the final sessions (Walküre). Solti and John Culshaw decided what was to be used, with the vocal parts the absolute top priority.

Putting what was an immense amount of recorded sound into the narrow tracks of LP records was a high price to pay; some or much of what was incredable and unique material could not be accomodated.

Once during a visit to London, Gordon Parry of Decca gave me a tour of their facilities at 165 Broadhurst Gardens. In the basement, in a massive vault, the master tapes of hundreds of recordings were stored. If those have been or would be remastered into digital technology, the Solti Ring would come alive yet another time. The four-track tape editions (London Records in the US at the time) are much better. Gordon Parry once mentioned that the Decca LP quality was better than the London US pressings.

Alas, they are all gone: the great team at Decca and most to those fantastic singers. As for the tuba player writing these notes, he went over 80 recently, not on the Autobahn.

The "Holton" tuba I had now belongs to John Elliot, We had a great meeting of the formers owners, minus our deceased colleage John Fletcher, at the Savage Club in London in 2013. Prior to that and one of the reasons for the trip was that Jimmy Brown, Decca´s master technician, was still alíve, 93 years of age at the time.

Decca produced some really good recordings, the Los Angeles "Planets" is superb, truly exciting from beginning to end. The Chicago Symphony recordings made at the Krannert Center in Urbana, Illinois are also excellent. These were done later, the technology was even better.

All water down the Danube now!

Bob

That's all really interesting, thanks so much again Mr. Tucci!

I can imagine the feeling after having pulled off the 8th-note run when Solti put you on the spot, a very gratifying moment I'm sure. A shame it got buried on the recording. Do you know what happened to all of the original master tapes? Not sure if Decca still has a presence/building in London anymore, but it would be cool to know if they're still out there somewhere. I do wonder if the online recordings on Spotify and the other streaming services came from one of the two LP pressing varieties you mentioned, or if they somehow came from the four-tracks or the master tapes. If they haven't done that, it would seem like a great opportunity, like you mentioned.

How long ago did you sell the Holton, if I might ask? Mr. Elliot is a lucky man, what a horn. A shame so many from that era are gone now, though you tell their stories so well. (Congrats on your 80th, by the way!)

I've been listening to the CSO since I first started playing, their recording of Bruckner 8 with Solti is my favorite rendition of that symphony. Also done by Decca, if the album cover on Spotify is to be believed.

I meant to ask, do you still perform with the Bavarian State Opera?

Thank you again for your notes, truly fascinating!

Seb