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American vs. European mouthpiece apertures

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:01 pm
by circusboy
I can't seem to find any specs on the difference other than the Euro one is larger.

I'm looking at a tuba with a mouthpiece aperture of 14.91mm/0.587". Would an American our Euro shank mouthpiece be the better fit?

Thanks.

Re: American vs. European mouthpiece apertures

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 11:16 pm
by rkirkconnell
Hopefully someone else can give you a more conclusive answer, but this old thread is the best I could find:
viewtopic.php?t=53370

In the last reply, someone did the math to find what the aperature size should be based on mouthpiece tip sizes and the "standard" taper.

TL;DR is that you seem to have a more "in between" size like the PT shank. If you fess up some more information about the actual tuba, I imagine someone else might be able to give you a more conclusive answer.

Re: American vs. European mouthpiece apertures

Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:59 am
by GeoffC_UK
Hello,
I am guessing that your "aperture" is the inner diameter of the mouthpiece receiver at the open end?
The web site for Wedge Mouthpieces provides a comparison of various shank sizes, for there are many, but this morning their site was off-line for maintenance. (//store.wedgemouthpiece.com/tuba-shank-specifications/).
Clearly, there are tolerances involved and this is a taper so measurement is not straightforward, so an actual trial fit would be best.
However, I did a quick check of my Willson receiver at roughly 14.8mm, which is cut for a Euro large shank, but I actual play with a Vincent Bach 24AW which has an Amercian standard shank, see video.
https://youtu.be/QnkmuljLAFk
Being an engineer, I find this a good reason for using standards in engineering.
Hope you get sorted.
Geoff

Re: American vs. European mouthpiece apertures

Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:00 pm
by humBell
From the opposite direction, i always thought Matt Walters' post here on Mouthpiece Shanks was useful:

viewtopic.php?t=10390

Re: American vs. European mouthpiece apertures

Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 5:42 am
by PeteDenton
I can't remember where I got this (I just did a copy and paste into a word doc I think) but it may be useful:

In the world of tuba mouthpieces, it seems there are five (5) general shank sizes and that, can lead to confusion. The Standard American and European Shank sizes, followed by the Large Shank, are the most common sizes that fit modern production tubas. From smallest to largest, we offer the following information to shed a little light on the subject.

SMALL EUROPEAN: Having a diameter of .490" at small end of shank, this size is offered by Dennis Wick in the sizes 1 through 5. Just make sure you order the one without the "L" in the model number. This size is most commonly used on old Besson tubas and old American Eb tubas. I hear this referred to as the Eb tuba size. Some old German, etc. 3/4 size BBb tubas have also shown up with that receiver size. If you are having trouble figuring out what small size shank your old tuba needs, it is about the same size as a large shank trombone mouthpiece. Borrow one from a trombonist and see for yourself. You can order a Denis Wick mouthpiece, or to have a wider variety of mouthpieces to choose from, consider replacing the receiver for about the price of a mouthpiece.

STANDARD AMERICAN: The reference point for this size of about .520" at the small end of the shank. A good example would be the Bach, and Conn Helleberg tuba mouthpieces. This is the most common size here in the United States. In the Dennis Wick line, you need to make sure it has the "L" in the model number to get this standard size. Our regular size shank Dillon Mouthpieces are also of this size. Besides American built horns, many European horns like Miraphone can use this size.

EUROPEAN SHANK: This is an increasingly popular shank size of about .530" diameter at the small end of the shank. It is found in mouthpieces like the JK Exclusive, Perantucci, Laskey "E" shank, and of course our wonderful Sheridan Series of mouthpieces. Most every European and American tuba built these days, will accept this shank size.

LARGE SHANK: This is a larger size that measures about .550" diameter at the small end of the shank. It works well on the larger European tubas. Especially horns with large diameter leadpipes like the "York" copies and most Alexander model 163 CC tubas. This is the size of our Dillon Music "L" shank mouthpiece and the new Wick 2XL.

KAISER SHANK: With a measurement of about .580" in diameter at the small end of the shank, this truly is a "Kaiser" size. It fits the largest Alexander model 164, a few ˜one off™ model 163's, and some original York receivers we've come across. Anyone needing this size shank will need to get a custom built mouthpiece, or have an adapter made.

Re: American vs. European mouthpiece apertures

Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 7:10 pm
by circusboy
Thanks, Pete and all.

I got the horn, and it turns out a standard American fits just fine. Go figure.

Re: American vs. European mouthpiece apertures

Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 4:03 pm
by humBell
Glad the mouthpiece/receiver worked out!

And Mr. Denton, that looks a lot like the Matt Walter's post i linked to, so if it is ever important to attribute it, ya need look no further.

If i understand it rightly though, those measurements are the small end of the mouthpiece, while if we're measuring for receivers, we're usually measuring the inside of the exposed (big) end of the receiver. So take that into account when evaluating a receiver.

Re: American vs. European mouthpiece apertures

Posted: Fri May 28, 2021 12:14 pm
by circusboy
Yes, humBell.

It's odd to me that we have so many stats and measurements of mouthpieces, but in terms of fit into the receiver, the measurement that really matters, the diameter of the shank at the point where it meets the receiver's end when fully inserted (there must be a shorter way to say that) is undiscoverable.