Leadpipe Mods .. Just Can't Leave Stuff Alone!

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:57 pm

Well... I've heard good and bad things about isolating the leadpipe from the horn... and I've heard good and bad things about heavy receivers and mouthpieces. My basic nature is to mess around and try various things so I decided to tinker a bit with my Carl Wunderlich (70's GDR) BBb rotary... what I consider to be an already great-playing horn. Here are a couple of images that pretty much speak for themselves:

I've only played a few scales and tooted around in the shop and it feels more centered, more focused, and more responsive. I will give the horn a more rigorous test next week. There are more images on my 'project' page. Comments?

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:40 pm

topchrisher wrote:The receiver looks very interesting. What metal(s) did you use to encase the leadpipe?

1" diameter solid brass with a .62" diameter hole through the center..... 3 1/8" long, soldered to the existing receiver. The sleeve weighs about ten ounces... perhaps the weight of maybe two Bach 'Megatone' MP sleeves.... with one BIG advantage... I can use any MP I want... including a Bach 'Megatone'.

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:42 pm

topchrisher wrote:The receiver looks very interesting. By nature I like to tinker with things as well. Although my financial and tubaial resources are currently limited so that I can't do things like that, I'd be very interested in knowing how it turns out. What metal(s) did you use to encase the leadpipe?

"Tubaial?" I'm going to have to look that one up.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:25 pm

harold wrote:Dan, you are opening a can of worms with the isolation of the leadpipe and increasing the mass around the receiver.

First, there is nothing to suggest that either of these by themselves or in concert do anything to change the vibration of the air column.

Second as noted in far more threads than I can count, there is no way to compensate for the psychological or psychosomatic impact of such changes.

Personally, t I think that these types of horn modifications are driven by a secret society of band instrument repair technicians looking for ways to increase their profit margins.

Harold... The main reason why I do things like this is to prove to myself if there is any merit to the modification. Otherwise, what works for any given horn/player combination (yes... the combination DOES make a difference)... may not have any merit whatsoever. I would never advocate modifications I have done to my own horns as a 'magic cure-all' for anyone else. Besides, I have plenty to do fixing trumpets for kids that don't know how to take care of them. There is only one true 'cure-all'.... practice.

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:23 pm

harold wrote:

There is only one true 'cure-all'.... practice.
Absolutely true - and can be proven.

I disagree. Practice is not a cure-all, either. If done correctly it can have a significant positive effect, but the effect is not automatic, and is certainly not necessarily proportionate to the amount, either.

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:47 pm

Last time I checked, sound and feel are both used to play the tuba. Since vibrations are felt through the mouthpiece and the horn every change to a horn will make some differnce to what the player feels when they play it. We are not just simple machines that if we press our lips to the horn in the same way we will all produce the same note with the same amount of wind used. If this were true then all horns would sound the same, look the same (because, of course, someone would have figured out the perfect shape by now

) and we wouldn't spend nearly as much $$$$ on mouthpieces, oils, cryogenics, valve lapping, valve alignment, spit valves, stop bumpers, slide grease, etc. If it makes a difference to you then it does make a difference. Will it make you the next Arnold Jacobs? No, but if the slight differences didn't matter lets just get rid of that CSO York and get something new.

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:58 pm

The reality is that the CSO Yorks are in themselves nice horns but not necessarily exceptional. What was exceptional is the way that they have been played. They have played well because they were played by great players. The magic isn't in the instrument - it is in the musician.

We all know that. So why do they keep the same horns? It's not because they are better or others are worse....It's because of the tiny differences that makes each horn unique. That's my point about the mods....you just never know what small thing might make someone say "wow, that's perfect". You have your horns at "Dan O's". Why not send it somewhere else and save yourself a few bucks? Now that's a question we all know the answer to. For me, anyone can fix my horn and as long as it was no worse than when I dropped it off I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. But I bet you (and a lot of others on this board) could.