WTB: 6-Valve CC (4+2 or 3+3)

[WangZhiXian]

Hello, I am looking to purchase a 6-valve CC tuba in either a 4+2 or 3+3 configuration. I'll probably need custom tuning slides as well, but that's the second part of this two-step problem.

It appears I missed my chance at Baltimore Brass last year, as there are mentions of a 6-valve Alex 163 that was sold there...does anybody know where that one ended up? Is adding valves to a 4- or 5-valve instrument a feasible route, or am I better off waiting for my unicorn to pop up in either the For Sale Forum or one of the Sponsors' websites? Should I give up on the idea of a 6v contrabass tuba and just lie in waiting for a suitable 6v F tuba?

Obviously, if I were rolling in money, I would not have a second thought about contacting one of the respected makers for a custom job, but I figure it's worth seeing what the wisdom of the board will yield...let's say there's a hypothetical budget of $8000 for this dream tuba.

Thanks for your input!

[DouglasJB]

My thinking (and I may be wrong) would be if you want a 6V CC, is to find an older 4V 163 and have a trusted tech add the valves. There is an older 4V 163 for sale on here around $4250 I believe.

[tclements]

I had a 4+2 Alexander 163 built. It went to The Horn Guys when I sold my business. It showed up in the hands of a tuba student I had at Stanford, who has since moved along. I do not know where that horn is now. If you want one, Alexander can build you one.

[bort]

I tried to test out a 4 + 2 Alexander CC at Baltimore Brass about 10 years ago. The receiver was so large, my euro-shanked mouthpiece wouldn't fit into it. Looked like a cool tuba, but was far beyond what I realistically wanted at the time.

[WangZhiXian]

Thanks for all the responses:

DouglasJB: I saw that ad. I suppose the idea of hacking and adding two extra valves seemed like a rather large surgery but assuming the $1500/valve figure is accurate, I would still have a few hundred left over for tuning slides.

TClements: Aha, so that's where that came from. Thanks for the history, do you happen to remember the valve tuning you ordered on that Alex? Any recollection of how it played? I am sure Alexander could build it, as could Nirschl or Meinl, but I would run into budgetary constraints

Bort: "Tried to test one out..." Pretty sure if I go the way of DouglasJB's recommendation I would need a new mouthpiece, or an extra few hundred for a new leadpipe

[arpthark]

Yeah, I've toyed with the idea of adding a valve to my 4v Alex that someone listed above.

There is a lot of open space on the wrap and a very long lead pipe that would make room for a valve. I believe Tom McGrady has undertaken a similar project with good results on his Alex. Ultimately, my Alex is a good enough horn without the added valves I'm afraid adding a valve would muck something up.

Now, a sixth valve, though... interesting idea.

[WangZhiXian]

Yes, believe me, I too have hesitation about building a frankenstein tuba out of something that wasn't originally designed with that number of valves in mind.

But on the flipside, as you point out, there are plenty of people who have added valves before without detrimental side effects.

And just in case anybody's curious about why six valves in the first place, let's just say I've gotten a case of trombone glissando envy and a six valve design along with some custom tuning slides has been shown by Robin Hayward to much improve the tuba's natural glissando, or lack thereof. Just take a listen to the inaugural episode of the UK's If Wet radio serial at the below link (58:00 on has Hayward demonstrating a couple glissandi):

http://radio.ifwet.org.uk/show1-tuba-mp3/" target="_blank" target="_blank

[tclements]

On my horn, the 5th valve was tuned to a long 1st valve (as usual) and the 6th valve was a long 1/2 step, like most F's. If you really have your heart set on one, call Alexander and ask them to build you one.

[WangZhiXian]

On my horn, the 5th valve was tuned to a long 1st valve (as usual) and the 6th valve was a long 1/2 step, like most F's. If you really have your heart set on one, call Alexander and ask them to build you one.

Thanks for the information! Out of curiosity though, why would you choose Alexander over the other custom makers of repute?

[tclements]

I knew Alexander had made them in the past as I had actually SEEN 2 of them, one I got from the past tuba played in the Sacramento Symphony, and one when I was a student at UOP, owned by Jim Murray. I figured SOMEWHERE in the Alexander shop they had the parts & tooling to make one. I think with other builders, they would have to make major mods to their horns to put one together. Looking at other 5 valve tubas, there didn't seem to be ROOM to insert a 6th valve. I contacted B&S about building one on a PT-6 frame, and was just told it was impossible (I even had a picture of an OLD B&S). Shoot me your email address and I'll send you THAT photo. I think with 4/4 - 5/4 rotary CC's, 6 valves is the way to go, PROVIDING it does not interfere with the free flow of air/sound waves. With the Alex, it didn't.

[WangZhiXian]

Tony, funny you mention specifically that B&S would NOT make one: That's who made the microtonal 6v CC and F tubas used by Kristoffer Lo, Martin Taxt, and Robin Hayward in the current Microtub recordings

Thanks again for sharing your experience in this realm.

[TheHatTuba]

There is also a 6 valve Neptune floating around (pretty darn similar to the PT-6). With your budget, Alexander would be your best bet. I believe they use Meinlschmidt valves.

[WangZhiXian]

There is also a 6 valve Neptune floating around (pretty darn similar to the PT-6). With your budget, Alexander would be your best bet. I believe they use Meinlschmidt valves.

Thanks for the info; I'll keep my eyes peeled.

I've sent an exploratory e-mail to Alexander, if for no other reason than to affix a firm price tag to this WTB wish.

[TheHatTuba]

There is also a 6 valve Neptune floating around (pretty darn similar to the PT-6). With your budget, Alexander would be your best bet. I believe they use Meinlschmidt valves.

Thanks for the info; I'll keep my eyes peeled.

I've sent an exploratory e-mail to Alexander, if for no other reason than to affix a firm price tag to this WTB wish.

You may be better off sending an email to Meinlschmidt and seeing what they would charge for 1-2 20.5mm rotors. Alexander could provide the tubing.