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WTB: .650 Rotor assembly including casing.

Postby cheburashka » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:57 pm

I have a Meinl Weston compensating valve section in .650 bore that's missing the rotor, bearing plate, and cap. I'd like to put in a new valve in the same configuration. It's a pretty standard port layout--I'm not even sure how you describe it, but a picture probably answers any questions you might have:

Image

Anyone have anything like that, or a source where I could pick one up? I don't have access to Conn/Selmer or Allied.

Thanks
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Re: WTB: .650 Rotor assembly including casing.

Postby the elephant » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:43 pm

The Olds Ultratone GG contrabass bugle was very close to your size (.656" - about 0.17mm larger than what you have). It used a single piston valve and a rotary valve. That rotary valve is hard to find, but it is very well made. I have only ever found these on complete horns or from corps that had upgraded their old piston/rotor contras with the Kanstul .656" three piston set designed to replace the complete valve section. These ended up costing about as much as the whole bugle was worth, so not many DCA senior corps decided to do this. They just replaced the horns. However, once I found a group that had seven valve sections, and they sent them to me for the cost of shipping! I have all these cleaned up and adapted/altered to work as a multi-valve section, and have actually got four of them soldered together now. I am still searching for one more plus one back plate and rear cap.

I suggest you look at shops in the Midwest where corps is a longtime tradition. They may have worked on lots of these horns in the past and might have one of these just sitting around. The ports are not straight, so they are fairly useless unless you work on them to fix that, which takes time, and then it is a single .656" rotor, which again, is just about useless — except to someone in your position...

I cannot think of *any* horn with a .650" rotor that would be common enough to have shops or individuals with a complete, functioning assembly to sell. The .656" is adaptable with work, and it is a far more common size of bore in the US.

Whatever you end up doing I wish you luck.

Wade
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Re: WTB: .650 Rotor assembly including casing.

Postby cheburashka » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:09 am

Aha!! Marching brass. I hadn't thought of that.

I see that Kanstul still makes a .656 horn. I'll contact them and see if they have a rotor to fit. Or if not, maybe a piston valve would work in this application.
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Re: WTB: .650 Rotor assembly including casing.

Postby the elephant » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:27 pm

If you end up getting one of these Olds rotors from the 1960s the knuckles are not set up to be used in series, as I said above. You have to trim them and then carefully bend them until you can make the faces meet flush AND you have adequate length to fit a short ferrule between them. Here are some pics so you know what you are up against if you use one of these, which (again) are not only usually very inexpensive, but very well made, too.

Image

Image

Image

Using only one will still require you fit the knuckles into the space and get them pointed in the correct direction. If you buy a rotor that is made for a normal tuba this will not be an issue. But if you *do* end up with one of these this is now here for you to later reference. Good luck.

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Re: WTB: .650 Rotor assembly including casing.

Postby cheburashka » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:40 pm

Actually, those would probably work as currently configured. The tubing for the 4th valve is not made up of long curves. It's a series of 90 degree angles connected with ferrules. Changing the orientation of the tubing leading to the ports would probably be fairly easy.

I've contacted Kanstul. I think they inherited a lot of the Olds parts, so maybe they have one of these in stock.
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Re: WTB: .650 Rotor assembly including casing.

Postby the elephant » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:41 pm

cheburashka wrote:Actually, those would probably work as currently configured. The tubing for the 4th valve is not made up of long curves. It's a series of 90 degree angles connected with ferrules. Changing the orientation of the tubing leading to the ports would probably be fairly easy.

I've contacted Kanstul. I think they inherited a lot of the Olds parts, so maybe they have one of these in stock.


Zig probably MADE all those old parts. He designed for Olds back then. The Ambasador line and all the bugles were his creations.
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Re: WTB: .650 Rotor assembly including casing.

Postby bloke » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:50 pm

I guard those that I own as well.
I didn't acquire them to sell as "parts", but to USE them.
That having been said, I won't be competing with anyone to buy any more trashed-out Olds Ultra-whatever's on eBay.
I have what I need.
They're decent rotors, and I've never acquired one in bad condition.
Last edited by bloke on Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WTB: .650 Rotor assembly including casing.

Postby the elephant » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:18 pm

bloke wrote:I guard those that I own as well.
I didn't acquire them to sell as "parts", but to USE them.
That having been said, I won't be competing with anyone to buy any more trashed-out Olds Ultra-whatever's on eBay.
I have what I need.
They're decent rotors, and I've never acquired on in bad condition.


Yep. I have nine, with seven of them more or less complete with the stop arms, plates, screws, etc. I have two that are incomplete, but if you swap in the missing parts they work great. It can be very useful to have small bore tuba rotors on hand. Keeping mine, too. But my little set of four, once altered for that purpose, make a dandy rotor set for a tenor tuba. Just sayin'... ;-)

Can't wait to use them.
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Re: WTB: .650 Rotor assembly including casing.

Postby cheburashka » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:29 am

Good news. You can still get .650 rotors. Meinlschmitt has tuba rotors that start at 16.5mm, which is .649. They come in nickel casings.

Since the original is nickel, I would bet that it was made by Meinlschmitt. I'm hoping I can just transfer the rotor, bearing plate and cap over. Sadly, they're $165 apiece. Seems like a lot for a rotor.
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