4th valve thumb trigger

[DaveC]

Hi! I'm a new member here, so I'll give a quick background and then ask my question. I am primarily a trombonist who doubles on euphonium. I was in the band at Langley AFB for one enlistment then used my GI bill to get a masters in performance at DePaul in Chicago. Since then (2003) I've been teaching privately, freelancing some, but mostly working in a shop as a brass repair tech. I recently got a hold of an Olds O-99 3 valve tuba for super cheap. It was beat up pretty bad, but I decided to make it a learning project, and I tore it apart to repair. I also happened to have a valve section off of a junked Dynasty marching tuba, and since the bore was slightly larger than the Olds i decided to use it to add a 4th valve to my tuba. That project is still in progress, but looking ahead to my next project I purchased a pretty rough Conn 36j on ebay, which I also plan to tear apart to dedent and restore. So, finally, I get to my question. Playing these instruments I realize that I have no independent motion in my pinky. Trying to use it on the 4th vale ends up causing pretty bad cramps in my hand. My euphonium is a YEP 321, but I have always used the forefinger of my left had to operate the 4th valve. I thought forcing myself to use my pinky on the tuba would eventually work, but I just don't see me acclimating at this point, it's really awkward and painful. So what I'm thinking of doing is building a trigger for my right thumb to actuate the 4th vlave. I haven't totally mapped out how that would work yet but I think it should be feasible. Is this something that has been done before? Are there any precedents I can look at for inspiration? Am I just being a wimp who needs to suck it up and learn how to use my pinky? I guess that was more than one question. Thanks for any help! I've had a lot of fun lurking around here and I'm excited to start participating in the forum.

[DaveC]

Thanks for the reply Mark! Yes, it definitely occurred to me that this would be easier on a rotary horn. You could just build a linkage like the 4th lever on a Geyer horn. And a compensating system tuba would certainly solve my problem. However, as tuba is a fun side instrument for me at this point I can't justify the expense. Also, the mechanical challenge of making this work is part of the motivation, the whole point of diving into these projects is to expand my skill set. That being said, making a thumb actuated lever for the 4th valve might not be practical. I've even considered building so that the lever acts on a valve stem on the bottom of the valve to make the mechanism less exposed.

[Tubajug]

You could use a rotary valve as a fourth valve instead of a piston and build some linkage just like people when they have the rotary valve as a 5th valve right after the block. That would be thumb-operated. Just imagine this tuba with only three pistons and then the rotary:



(Picture is borrowed from a "For Sale" ad to show the type of linkage I've got in my head)

At one point in time I thought about doing that with a Yamaha YBB-103 (using a rotary valve to add a 4th valve), but never went anywhere with it.

[DaveC]

Something like that might be what I try in the future, thanks for the suggestion. I wish I had thought of it before adding the 4th piston on my current project(Olds O-99). The Conn 36j is already 4 valves, and i really don't want to replace the current 4th valve with a rotor. If I can't train my pinky to work, and if I decide I want to go deeper with the tuba, I might just look for another 3 valve horn and add a rotor for the 4th.

[DaveC]

By the way I would like to share pictures of my current project as it progresses, but I am a forum noob and I don't understand how to add images to my posts. Is there a guide for this on the forum somewhere? I did a quick search but must not know the right terms to enter. Thanks for any help.

[Sousaswag]

Use Google Drive and attach a link. Very easy, just make sure they're not private!

[DaveC]

Well shoot, I tried to post a reply with images but every place I inserted an image it just had the word "image". Not sure what I did wrong, I made the images public on my google drive. I'll see if I can find a tutorial.

[DaveC]

Ok, I'm going to attempt to post some pictures of my Olds project. This isn't on the level of some of the amazing work I've seen here but I'm pretty happy with how it's gone so far. I've finished the dent work, installed a 4th valve from a Dynasty tube(slightly lager bore than the Olds .656), finished building the draw bench I started 10 years ago, made tooling and drawn tubing for some of the parts I need to make, and finally realized that the tube bending setup I have is inadequate for the size tube I'm working with. I'll have to use a steel base plate I think.

this is how I got it


Some dent work progress




Adding the 4th valve



Reassembly



Draw bench and die for one of the tube sizes I need to make




The as yet unsuccessful bending setup




And finally the impulse ebay purchase that I thought I made too low of a bid for but won anyway



So, lots of work left to do. The Olds is my "Let's learn how to add a valve" project, and the Conn 36j will be my "Let's learn how to copper plate, nickle plate, and hone" project.

p.s. obviously I finally got the images to post but HOLY **** was that a tedious process! I'm assuming I'm not doing it the most efficient way, if anyone could point me to some sort of tutorial I would greatly appreciate it!

[DaveC]

p.p.s Not sure why some of the images ended up rotated the way they were, the originals are all upright. Guess I have some more learnin' to do...

[Tubajug]

Good work going there!

What did you do to get them posted? What was the tedious part? I see they're from a google drive, but I've been unable to get them to post directly like you did. How did you go about doing that? Thanks!

[DaveC]

For each image I had to copy the share link and then go to “Google Drive Direct Link Generator” generate the link, then copy/paste the generated link into the post. Even then, I notice the images don’t show on Safari on my iPhone. They do appear on Chrome and Firefox on the phone however. Not sure why it’s so inconsistent.

[DaveC]

I'm really happy I won the auction, but to be honest I made a bid I was pretty sure would be too low. I'm not very familiar with the used market in general and tubas in particular, I just don't buy and sell horns. Fortunately it turned out to be in better shape than I was afraid it would be. Everything moves, no crack aside from a pretty nasty one in the bell, and it plays pretty nice. I think once I get the valves fit better it could be a pretty awesome instrument.