Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC? Bookmark and Share

Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby eupho » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:17 pm

Has anyone out their had their plastic Tiger/CoolWind BBb tuba cut to CC or even EEb? I am not a repair guy but it seems like it would be pretty easy to do the actual cutting. Of course, the measurements would need to be accurate.
Just curious.
2052sg Euphonium-
2110L BBb tuba
3/4 Conn Eb tuba
eupho
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Endicott,NY

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby roweenie » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:09 am

Cutting branches to remove material requires some expanding to restore taper, which I don't see as being possible when working with plastic.

My question would be, why?
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day".
User avatar
roweenie
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 2133
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:17 am
Location: Waiting on a vintage tow truck

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby The Big Ben » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:47 am

It's your money. Have a good time. Wee.
User avatar
The Big Ben
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 3160
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:54 pm
Location: Port Townsend, WA

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby the elephant » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:57 am

It is painted. It is a semi-opaque, ugly, yellowish white plastic and the ferrules and other connectors are this grayish medium blue. After you strip back all the paint on all the body joints and then figure out how to break the bond of whatever cement was used to glue them together, you will have to calculate where you will be removing all 24 inches of pipe from the bugle. This will come from the ends of each branch and perhaps the main tuning slide. Once you trim the branches you will find that they no longer fit together, since you made the small ends larger in diameter and the big ends smaller because they are tapered.

As stated above, you will have to figure out how to reshape them to make an airtight fit, probably via complex shimming. (You can forget about re-tapering unless you are adept at heading tube ends enough to make them bendable - but not melted - and then reshape them while they are this hot.

And after all that you will have this partially unpainted Home Depot DIY bathroom project-looking horn.

This is why no one has tossed $1200 (+ whatever taxes, shipping, duty, etc. gets slapped onto that price) to do this. One day someone will, but cutting tubas started with junk tubas that did not cost the person who did the work all that much money. They took cast-off horns and converted them to horns that would sell for a lot of money. These plastic tubas are brand new and far from cheapo castoffs.

If you do this please, by all means, do a well documented writeup with lots of photos and perhaps some nice video of the before and after playing characteristics.

And good luck with the valves, which are still so bad as to make me balk at buying one, much less spending the 100+ hours needed to convert it to a CC tuba with any hope of success.

Some ideas are just bad. :tuba:
User avatar
the elephant
Papa Legba
Papa Legba
 
Posts: 14500
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:38 pm
Location: 404 Not Found

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby Bill Troiano » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:28 am

As to why? If it's to get a lightweight, small CC that plays well, then just get a Yamaha 621CC.
Bill Troiano
5 valves
5 valves
 
Posts: 1129
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:08 am
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby UncleBeer » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:50 am

the elephant wrote: Once you trim the branches you will find that they no longer fit together, since you made the small ends larger in diameter and the big ends smaller because they are tapered.


Heck, didn't a certain professional make a cottage industry for himself of cutting up legacy BBb tubas and telescoping the large bows up inside each other?

Surely this is a fine, time-tested solution. :lol:
User avatar
UncleBeer
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 1556
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:07 am

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby PMeuph » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:52 am

If I compare how easy it is for me cut through PVC with a hacksaw, or to cut a branch with the same hack saw, it don't see it much easier. Plus with the brass, it's easy to remove the the tubing from the ferrule with a torch, with plastic I don't know what glue would be used (our if I'd have to sand it out with a dremel.)I'm not sure what kind of glue would be needed to hold a plastic tuba back together (Abs cement?, pvc cement?, Polyurathane glue?, epoxy?)

Is a CC or Eb plastic tuba a worthwhile project. Maybe, but I'm going to let the makers make it before I do.

The whole cut to CC thing stems from a time (pre 1980s) when large quality CC tubas were not available, labor was cheap and used large BBb tubas were cheap. None of those three conditions hold true anymore. In the past 5 years, the Chinese tubas have increased in quality and models are way more varied. One thing that caught my eye recently was that Sam Gnagey struggled to sell one of his horns for the same price he was selling them 10 years ago. His horns use to fly like cupcakes, but now, similar horns are available new from a company for less money with less wait time. As much as people like to complain that everything has gone up in price in the past decade, I would say that it's not true. (yes, everything that is an essential has gone up in preice (groceries, rent, gas, utilisities, taxes, etc) But most luxury and non essentials have not gone up. TVs, smart phones, computers, they've all gone down in the past decade(You can buy a computer for $5 today, that is more powerful than one you would have paid $3000 for 30 years ago) . Used products are also way more available with FB classifieds and Craigslist sales.
Yamaha YEP-642s
Boosey & Hawkes 19" Bell Imperial EEb
PMeuph
5 valves
5 valves
 
Posts: 1382
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby Casca Grossa » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:03 am

Mack-a-clone 186 Chairman Mao
Blokepiece Imperial
Lignatone Eb Sigmund Freud
Amati Eb Klement Gottwald
Blokepiece Solo
Mack Brass Bass Bone Sun Tzu
Douglas Yeo Replica Mouthpiece
Why have 3 valves when you can have 6 and a main tuning slide kicker???
User avatar
Casca Grossa
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 869
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 8:36 am
Location: Reading, PA

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby Kirley » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:46 am

Casca Grossa wrote:Just get this...http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/A ... 44962.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

Yes!
And then tell us all about it.
Plastic Piston CC!
Now if they’d just make one in BBb... :D
Kirley
3 valves
3 valves
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: Oakland, CA

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby Casca Grossa » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Kirley wrote:
Casca Grossa wrote:Just get this...http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/A ... 44962.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Yes!
And then tell us all about it.
Plastic Piston CC!
Now if they’d just make one in BBb... :D


I was trying to locate a link I found months ago but couldn't. I found this model sold in a shop in both BBb and CC. You could see the difference in tubing from the photos. So there is a BBb version out there.
Mack-a-clone 186 Chairman Mao
Blokepiece Imperial
Lignatone Eb Sigmund Freud
Amati Eb Klement Gottwald
Blokepiece Solo
Mack Brass Bass Bone Sun Tzu
Douglas Yeo Replica Mouthpiece
Why have 3 valves when you can have 6 and a main tuning slide kicker???
User avatar
Casca Grossa
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 869
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 8:36 am
Location: Reading, PA

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby pjv » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:07 pm

If my memory serves me correctly, this Yama copy got a real bad review.
On the other hand the Tiger's are doing rather well under the critics as far as sound and intonation is concerned. I've tried one myself and can vouch for this. But the valves made a disgusting amount of noise. And I've no idea as to how durable the valves are, but the easy generation models also got a bad review in this department.
Ya pays yur nickel ya takes ye chances
or something like that.
There is a future in this, if only because they are very lightweight.
User avatar
pjv
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:39 am

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby bloke » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:13 pm

I could imagine some negative reaction to this politically-incorrect question, but...

...Isn't is pretty much true that the C version is the least-popular - as well as the least-easy-to-play-in-tune - of the three Yamaha model 621 tubas?
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 46569
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby chronolith » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:33 pm

the elephant wrote:And after all that you will have this partially unpainted Home Depot DIY bathroom project-looking horn.


Spray painting it silver should not only make it airtight again but also give it a world class sound. Might as well book a spot for it on the OFFICIAL LIST.
User avatar
chronolith
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 553
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:26 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Tiger/CoolWind tuba cut to CC?

Postby joh_tuba » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:15 am

bloke wrote:I could imagine some negative reaction to this politically-incorrect question, but...

...Isn't is pretty much true that the C version is the least-popular - as well as the least-easy-to-play-in-tune - of the three Yamaha model 621 tubas?


The BBb 621 isn't particularly great for playing in tune either. :/
joh_tuba
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:34 pm


Return to Repair, Modification, and Construction

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests