No rest for the obsessive compulsive Bookmark and Share

No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby roweenie » Wed May 09, 2018 3:26 pm

Ok, so I'm looking at this horn I'm building, and everything looks nice and parallel, until I stand it on the bell - lo and behold, the valve cluster is no longer parallel, noticeably so.

So, I take the set off and re-install it so that when it's on its bell, all is parallel - -

Image

Now, the valve set looks crooked in reference to the bugle, even though it is square with the bell.

The issue is that the radius of the bottom bow is too wide in reference to everything else, so squaring the bugle is only possible if I put a WIDE brace between the bell and top bow, which I DON'T want to do. I think that would look worse than anything else.

I thought of taking the difference between the two, but that would be unsatisfactory all around.

Sooooooooooo, what would you do in this situation?

(Please be kind with your answers, OCD is a tough nut to crack.....)
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day".
User avatar
roweenie
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 2133
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:17 am
Location: Waiting on a vintage tow truck

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby Stryk » Wed May 09, 2018 6:08 pm

It looks great as it is.
Terry Stryker
Alexander 163 BBb
Amati Kraslice 481 C
Mirafone 184 C
Mirafone186 C
Mirafone186 BBb
Lyon & Healy 1904 C
Kane Stealth C
Other non-descript tuba fodder
User avatar
Stryk
Retired Educator
Retired Educator
 
Posts: 2278
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:55 pm
Location: Panama City, Florida

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby bloke » Wed May 09, 2018 6:12 pm

Bells and bows are cone-shaped. There is no "parallel".
Things sometimes look "right" one way and "wrong" another way.
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 46569
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby the elephant » Wed May 09, 2018 7:21 pm

Those cones have a centerline, and it bugs some to see horns assembled with those centerlines visibly off from one another. (Even my 410 has very well aligned outer branches and bell.) He and I are fussing over the same issue with our horns. Nothing looks worse than a cattywampus set of tuba outer branches.
User avatar
the elephant
Papa Legba
Papa Legba
 
Posts: 14500
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:38 pm
Location: 404 Not Found

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby bloke » Wed May 09, 2018 7:59 pm

I understand...
Turn it over and take another picture.
Show us how it's crooked, and how making it look "good" upside-down will leave it looking "good" right-side-up.
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 46569
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby hup_d_dup » Thu May 10, 2018 9:45 am

(delete)
Last edited by hup_d_dup on Thu May 10, 2018 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
hup_d_dup
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 802
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:10 am
Location: Tewksbury, NJ

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby hup_d_dup » Thu May 10, 2018 9:59 am

bloke wrote:I understand...
Turn it over and take another picture.
Show us how it's crooked, and how making it look "good" upside-down will leave it looking "good" right-side-up.


It appears to me that the problem would be alleviated if the entire valve assembly was rotated counter-clockwise. You don't need another photo to confirm this because if you turn the picture upside down the valve assembly still looks like it needs to be rotated counter-clockwise.

Here's how it might look if the valve section were magically rotated:

correction 1.jpg
correction 1.jpg (90.07 KiB) Viewed 926 times


A possible solution, although likely impractical, would be to install a wider top bow.

correction 2.jpg
correction 2.jpg (90.19 KiB) Viewed 926 times


If the instrument plays well, what the heck.

Hup
Facebook is your friend, your friend your friend your friend your friend your friend your friend your friend your friend your friend your friend your friend your friend your friend your friend
hup_d_dup
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 802
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:10 am
Location: Tewksbury, NJ

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby Dan Schultz » Thu May 10, 2018 2:06 pm

Looks fine to me. It's always a bit of a challenge to make things 'look right' from every angle. I usually visually visualize the centerline of the bell and back bow then split the difference.
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
User avatar
Dan Schultz
TubaTinker
TubaTinker
 
Posts: 10385
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:46 pm
Location: Newburgh, Indiana

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby roweenie » Fri May 11, 2018 12:27 am

Thanks for all the comments -

Yes, Dan, excellent point - when mounting a valve nest onto a horn, I like to draw with a marker a vertical line down the center of the bell stack as a reference. Then, as I get things on, occasionally check things with a 2' level. Obsessive, but it's my cross to bear....(Wade, I feel your pain..... :cry: )


OK, so I took a good long look at this thing last night, and I noticed that when I put the bugle together, the top bow was tilted slightly out of alignment (to the rear) with the bottom bow. Even a small (1/8 to 1/4", aka nearly imperceptible) deviation at one end will be magnified greatly by the time you get to the other end of the branch. Changing that alignment moved the contact point between the top bow and bell a little farther apart, which also pushed the branch farther away, making it line up better with the center line of the bell.......

After I straightened that out, I removed and remounted the valveset again, and although I still think the bottom bow is about 1/2" wide (these horns were all handmade, and therefore inconsistent), I struck a much better balance with making the valveset parallel to the bugle -

Image

BTW, I'm really happy with how this horn plays, too...very in tune with itself, and the smaller bell flare (17 1/2") gives it a nice punch when you open it up.

Getting there, little by little - next task, the 5th valve circuit.....off to bed now....
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day".
User avatar
roweenie
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 2133
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:17 am
Location: Waiting on a vintage tow truck

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby bort » Fri May 11, 2018 1:14 am

That tuba looks great, stop messing with it! :) But really, that's very impressive, congratulations!

What key?
Alexander 163 CC
User avatar
bort
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 10985
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:08 pm
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby roweenie » Fri May 11, 2018 12:11 pm

bort wrote:That tuba looks great, stop messing with it! :) But really, that's very impressive, congratulations!


Thanks, my eggs are done -

What key?


Old school BBb
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day".
User avatar
roweenie
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 2133
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:17 am
Location: Waiting on a vintage tow truck

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby bloke » Fri May 11, 2018 6:32 pm

8) :shock:
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 46569
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby Rivercity Tuba » Mon May 14, 2018 10:52 am

Very nice Bob!
User avatar
Rivercity Tuba
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:21 am
Location: In a van down by the river

Re: No rest for the obsessive compulsive

Postby bloke » Mon May 14, 2018 10:58 am

To me, it looks equally nice either way.
This one lines up nicely with the inner sides of the bows, and the other way lined up nicely with other parts.

operative words: nice, nicely
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 46569
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee


Return to Repair, Modification, and Construction

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests