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Re: Dueling 186s - Twin Restorations

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:14 pm
by the elephant
Once again I went out with plans and promptly strayed from them.

What ended up happening was that I spent forty-five minutes buffing the five BBb bugle ferrules so that I could better see issues and so that I could… well, never mind. Long story.

After a quick break I spent two hours bashing and expanding these ferrules and the ends of the tubes they are to live with until just about everything fits nicely.

I now have the BBb bell fitting well into the #1 ferrule, but a bit too tightly, and the other end does not quite fit the bottom bow - it is still too tight. The #2 and #3 ferrules both fit too loose on the side where they need to be tight and too tight where they need to be a bit more loose.

Adjust, adjust, adjust…

The #3 ferrule is a cast iron female dog; it is super thick and is just about impossible to taper at all to any degree. It is pretty close, though.

Ferrules #4 and #5 are fitting very well.

So, as far as the BBb the whole horn is trimmed and the ends all fit. i just need to clean that fitment up. That last bit usually takes a lot more time than all the work needed to get it to that point, so this ought to take me another six hours of clubbing away like a caveman.

I am off to eat at the local diner with my wife and then see Star Wars at our local two (small) screen theater. should be a real hoot, what with the locals shouting stuff like "LOOK OUT, LUKE!"

I hope.

The factory CC outer branches and ferrules next to the factory BBb ones after having been cut and now properly tapered to fit together nicely. I do not see any real acoustic issues save that the cut BBb is smaller, internally, and that ought to just affect tone and not intonation.


Re: Dueling 186s - Twin Restorations

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:59 pm
by the elephant
Okay, so the weather sort of cooperated with my plans for work today, until I would light off the acetylene torch, then it was like the winds of West Texas in February. This slowed everything I did down a huge amount and caused some times where I needed my old shop's time honored "Anger Cornet" to throw around the damned back yard. UGH!

Anyway, the weirdly misshapen 2nd ferrule ended up becoming a very nicely shaped one that fits much better to both parts now. I also fit the bell to the 1st ferrule. So now the bell, outer branches and inner branches are ready to reassemble.

But first, HEY, I MADE A FREAKING MESS TODAY. Much of that is wind-related, and some was just me getting older. (cough, cough) I have to clean all that crap up tomorrow.

Also, I have to build this back like in the factory, if I want my old braces to still fit right, so top bow, (then the 4th slide, which I think at the factory is installed after the first three slides, so that is out of order, but it is convenient, so there it is) then the bottom bow. I need to fit the longer bell brace, so I will tack the bell and bottom bow together like I want them, then dry fit the bottom bow to the top bow and wire things in place with the new brace, and the old brace on the bottom bow can then be slide upwards a bit to allow the bottom bow to kick over a little. This will allow the bell to be on the bottom bow straight and not canted a bit outwards. Once that is done I can solder the bottom bow in place and remove the bell for some cleanup. The bell can go on after all the valves are on, since it is much easier to handle the tuba with the "stovepipe" out of the way.

Anyway, the top bow guard fits incorrectly across the top of the bow just as it did originally and later with this new part that I had to remove and then reinstall. It has a weird twist to the shape that I could not figure out how to remove, so the guard has to follow that contour. It is centered from the bottom to just about the middle of the curve over, then it pulls to the rear of the guard. I'm not going to have a baby fretting over it. (Okay, maybe I did in the recent past, but I have since gotten over it. Mostly.)

It became too cold to do the cleanup work, so that will be tomorrow, as stated above. I also have some additional fine dent work to do, but I keep forgetting to do it.

Time for some pics.

My cat Zoe is suspicious of the BBb press-fit bell and bottom bow. The CC bell and bottom bow is far less sketchy to the cat, I guess. Perhaps her suspicion is due to the new bell garland that is devoid of any engraving. I know that makes *me* suspicious

Here are the re-tapered bottom and top bows. (I hate that term because I think it is deceptive, but it is the term I know.) The top bow has had the guard reinstalled and the 2nd ferrule soldered in place. Sorry for the slop. I will clean all that up later. The Scotch-Brite finish was to clean stuff up well enough to check for pinhole leaks or gaps in the solder on the ferrule or guard.



Re: Dueling 186s - Twin Restorations

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:15 am
by bloke
The cuts look really excellent.
I wonder if this (below) would help anyone who - for now - is doing carport repair work and customization.
Is it short enough to fit underneath a typical carport ceiling?
(weighing down the corners with cinder blocks, heavy spare car parts, etc.), but able to turn it when the wind shifts)
Later - when something better is devised - would this prove handy for misc. storage?

1-5-20.png (6.67 KiB) Viewed 858 times


EDIT: I'm installing unstained/clear polyurethane-coated baseboards in a room, today, with mitered corners. I wanted to Titebond-glue and staple the various corners together before stapling them to the walls, so I went to a suburb of Memphis to buy a corner clamp from Harbor Freight. I was MET AT THE DOOR :shock: by an employee wheeling out one of those VERY tent-sheds for a customer.


Re: Dueling 186s - Twin Restorations

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:38 pm
by the elephant
Today I am finally getting to reassembly. Sort of. \

I am on a lunch break. No pics, sorry.

So far I spent an hour or so gently scraping, sanding and buffing the edges of the #2 ferrule and the top bow guard so that I can *finally* reinstall that to the inner branches. Then I will look at the cleanup of the 4th slide circuit, which is fragile as it is long, in one piece, and sort of "floppy" at the moment. I have to buff off old solder messes from previous (probably more than five) previous owners' repairmen, and a strip of lacquer that I could not get to (but that was clearly visible) when this was on the horn. It still looks like a matte, Scotch-Brite finish over most of the run, so I will hand polish that out once it is on the horn.

Today is going very well for the most part. There is a lot of wind, but it is sporadic, and I have set up my Jeep's hard top as a wind break.

Back later.

Re: Dueling 186s - Twin Restorations

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:00 pm
by the elephant
The amount of adjustment needed to fit that 2nd ferrule to the bottom bow was a real unexpected time waster. I got that done, cleaned up the solder work on the top bow ferrule and guard, and then moved on to the first step in reassembly. The top bow and its two braces were installed and partially cleaned up. Before the bottom bow goes on I will actually buff the thing decently and then strap between everything. Then the big boy and its two braces can go on and the fit can be adjusted to accept the new bell brace. Then more biffing and strapping to the bottom bow heat and solder areas.

Then I come to a stopping point where I have to decide some stuff, which I'll deal with when I get to it.

So the top bow is back on. The 2nd ferrule looks nearly new: de-dented, re-tapered and -shaped...

Top bow guard. Yeah, buffing dirt. I have to work on this tomorrow, but I had to bring it inside for the night, so I did an *okay* job with the mineral spirits, but I missed some stuff. Sue me. ;-)


The bottom bow fits into the 2nd ferrule very nicely now, and I did not (thank goodness) open up any of the bugle's branch radii. I have seen that happen before so that the horn could not be reassembled, and this uses only non-adjustable braces, so even being off a very little can make reassembly a nightmare. But no worries! This looks really decent, fit-wise. (The bottom bow is just press fit so that I can fit all this into the box.)

Re: Dueling 186s - Twin Restorations

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:24 pm
by roughrider
Thanks for the photos and text! The work you have done looks terrific and we all are anxiously awaiting the final product of both the CC and the BBb horns. Keep chugging along!

Re: Dueling 186s - Twin Restorations

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:14 pm
by bearphonium
That is looking good!