To slide or not to slide? Bookmark and Share

To slide or not to slide?

Postby Tubajug » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:54 am

Greetings,

I got started on my third valve circuit yesterday and was able to get the top crook paralleled, soldered and the outer tubes braced. Looking at the bottom crook, I'm trying to decide whether or not to put a tuning slide there. I should have plenty of pull on the upper slide, and there will be a spit valve on the lower crook, so emptying water won't be an issue. The only thing I can think of would be aesthetic, so that you see ferrules on the bottom like you do on the first valve.

What say ye? To slide or not to slide?

Here it is last night with the lower crook and tubing just dry fitted. The only thing soldered at this point is the top crook and the brace between the outer tubes.

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Re: To slide or not to slide?

Postby the elephant » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:34 am

It is your horn, so you do whatever you want. There are no rules.

Keep in mind that the lower slide will *require* you to very carefully align things so that both the top and bottom legs actually can slides nicely. Removal of a slide function that you do not need or want would not harm anything if the crook is wide enough to properly clean out when you need to do so, and then you only need to make sure the other slide works properly — the lower only needs to be parallel and co-planar enough to not look weird.

When you blow through this valve set from the leadpipe knuckle, with 3rd depressed, where does the air come from? The upper knuckle or the lower one? If it comes from the upper one you will have a nasty water trap and you will likely never get water in the lower crook, anyway. If this is the case it may be better to install the water key in the top slide crook, so you can dump the water directly from the upper trap when you put the horn across your lap. I did this on my Eb for 3rd and 4th both because of the airflow direction. I don't like patched crooks and also don't like unneeded water keys. I would not worry about water keys until the horn plays and you know where you actually get water buildup.

Also, a Jupiter copy of an Amado water key can be purchased off eBay for a decent price. It does not use the ridiculous C clip — the rear spring retention plate is actually a large threaded piece and the outer face is machined to use a flathead screwdriver. You could put one on the upper 3rd knuckle if your "blow test" shows the air to exit the upper knuckle rather than the lower. Remember, if it does you have a bad water trap that will need to be addressed at some point. I have learned over the years that a water key right there can be a GREAT addition to a horn. If you install it now it is easiest, but then you have no idea how to angle it so that it is accessible through the rear of the body with a screwdriver.

Lots to think about, but doing that now, working out your plans now, will save you time and frustration down the road.
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Re: To slide or not to slide?

Postby roweenie » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:56 pm

As Wade aptly said, it's your horn and ultimately your decision.

However, if it were my horn, I would say "yes" to a lower crook.

It will take a bit of patience to get it right (top and bottom both parallel, etc.) but in my OCD mind, it's worth the trouble. It can be done!
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Re: To slide or not to slide?

Postby Tubajug » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:01 pm

Thanks for your thoughts folks. I had the water key down there because that's where it was on the 12J I took the valves from, but I'll definitely do the blow test you mentioned just to see if it's necessary.

I think I'm leaning towards a slide down there just for the sake of ease in water dumping, cleaning, etc. And it matches the look of the 1st slide. Keep the thoughts coming if you have any more! Thanks!
Jordan
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba in progress
Martin Medium Eb Helicon

Used to own, but still a fun thread: Lyon & Healy Eb

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Re: To slide or not to slide?

Postby YORK-aholic » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:30 pm

If it were mine. I would put a slide down below also. For the ease of cleaning the horn out later, if nothing else.

Also, if you end up needing to move the 3rd slide around for certain notes, you can set the bottom slide where it needs to be, then 'trombone' the upper slide.

Nice work so far.
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Re: To slide or not to slide?

Postby bloke » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:47 pm

I would consider cleaning to be an issue with no lower slide.
The #3 circuit, arguably, is the most difficult to install due to its dual parallel geometry requirement.
Typically, I've had to mess around with slide bow widths to end up with both the upper and lower pairs of tubes at 000:000 (perfectly parallel)...and have developed my own methods to do that without ovaling the slide bow tubing.
Yes the #1 circuit has the same issue, but usually seems to be easier to deal with, and - with the slide tubes being shorter - it's easier to keep them within specs.

Obviously, it's your stuff, and you should do as you wish. Attempting (particularly: accomplishing) more difficult tasks, though, does tend to make us stronger, yes?
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Re: To slide or not to slide?

Postby tclements » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:38 am

Down facing tubes should always slide. Water will collect there and in most instances, the condensation release lever does not function as expected. It's faster to pull the slide and dump. My 2¢ worth ...
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Re: To slide or not to slide?

Postby iiipopes » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:44 am

The entire point of all of these posts having to do with the water issue and whether or not it is a good idea to have down-slides removable (which it is)(and from experience in high school): avoiding the "King Spin" to get the water out.
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Re: To slide or not to slide?

Postby Tubajug » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:36 pm

Looks like I'm going to go for the slide!

I had planned on it (installing a slide) originally, but just got to thinking about the possibility of not messing with it, thus asking your opinions. Thanks folks. Watch for an update!
Jordan
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba in progress
Martin Medium Eb Helicon

Used to own, but still a fun thread: Lyon & Healy Eb

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