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Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby dugh » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:12 pm

I've got a crack in the leadpipe of my 20J. What kind of repair is best to keep it's playability? Thanks.
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby roweenie » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:13 am

Wow, there's much more going on there than just a crack....

Depending upon how much corrosion there is, it might be just as easy to replace it. I've got to imagine nobody will patch that without removing all that distortion first.

I'm pretty sure the 20J mouthpipe is still commercially available.....
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby BuddyRogersMusic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:55 am

roweenie wrote:Wow, there's much more going on there than just a crack....


Depending upon how much corrosion there is, it might be just as easy to replace it. I've got to imagine nobody will patch that without removing all that distortion first.

Agreed on both. That pipe needs to be round before any patch would hold. And who knows what is on the back side of the pipe next to the body.

roweenie wrote:I'm pretty sure the 20J mouthpipe is still commercially available.....

Yep, did one last year that turned out great.
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby bloke » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:16 am

None of the "Allied" 'pipes are appropriate, though I've seen *them stuck on 20J tubas anyway.

The 'pipe should be taken off the instrument, the receiver should be removed, the lead solder cleaned off (with every last trace sanded/buffed off), the pipe should be soaked in cleaning acid to remove sludge/lime, the damage (creases) should be repaired, the crack should be silver brazed shut, and (finally) the 'pipe could be reinstalled.

The 'pipe should also be cleaned a second time (after the creases are repaired, but BEFORE the crack is brazed shut) with a solvent to remove any grease that may have been used in the crease repairs.

=======================================

Otherwise (if the creases aren't troubling to the owner, and "money spent on a proper repair" is troubling to the owner), a craptastic repair is to bead up "soft" solder on top of the crack. The no-lead "plumbing" solder in hardware stores flows poorly, and (thus) beads up in one spot better than "real" lead solder.

Another approach (which, actually, would allow for a PROPER fix in the future, because this crap could be chipped away completely) would be to mix up some two-part epoxy and cover the crack with it. :| The way I see it, those creases are ugly, but - with the crack covered with epoxy - my best guess is that the instrument would play just fine.
_________________________________________
*The short one (Allied) only reaches a .750" bore (not .768" as with the 20J), and the small end's diameter of that 'pipe is too small. The really long (rotary-appropriate) mouthpipe tube that Allied sells does feature a .768" large end, but - at the point it would need to be cut off for a 20J - it's way too large.
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby The Big Ben » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:10 pm

Someone here may have a satisfactory 20J lead pipe in their "pile o' crap". Couldn't hurt to ask.
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby bloke » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:42 pm

The receiver brace isn't original, just fwiw.
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby dugh » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:01 pm

Thanks for all the responses! Any recommendations for a repairman in northern Ohio?
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby roweenie » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:42 pm

Isn't our own J. c. Sherman out that way (East Cleveland)? He'd be an excellent place to start....
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby bububassboner » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:36 pm

You know I’ve always wanted to make a new pipe for these that did NOT need a bit. Does anybody have...

Small side I.D.
Large side I.D.
Total length
Length of the extra tuning bit

I might have a beat up pipe in my pile of junk, but if anyone has that info it might be time to put my cnc skills to work.
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby dugh » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:17 am

roweenie wrote:Isn't our own J. c. Sherman out that way (East Cleveland)? He'd be an excellent place to start....


Thanks for the recommendation!
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby The Big Ben » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:15 pm

bububassboner wrote:You know I’ve always wanted to make a new pipe for these that did NOT need a bit. Does anybody have...
.


Go for it but one reason for the bit was to have the horn on a Wenger stand and be able to get the MP where you want it. Not everyone will or can hold a 20/24J in their lap.
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby bloke » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:28 pm

The Big Ben wrote:
bububassboner wrote:You know I’ve always wanted to make a new pipe for these that did NOT need a bit. Does anybody have...
.


Go for it but one reason for the bit was to have the horn on a Wenger stand and be able to get the MP where you want it. Not everyone will or can hold a 20/24J in their lap.


A tuning bit, necessarily, puts a reverse taper (roughly, an inch long) in a tuba's/sousaphone's mouthpipe.
If this is desired, then bravo. If not, a longer mouthpipe is a better choice.
Martin bits (more trouble to manufacture) avoided the reverse taper, but were cylindrical - rather than reverse-tapered...still: atypical.
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby bloke » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:31 pm

I could fix that (and would be glad to)...but do not accept shipped-in repairs:
- unpacking/repacking/shipping p.i.t.a.
- risk of damage in transit (instrument owners' packing inexperience + careless treatment by shippers)

Where do you live?
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby dugh » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:55 pm

Thanks for the offer. Unfortunately, I see I'm quite a distance from you. I live in northern Ohio.
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby bloke » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:12 pm

dugh wrote:Thanks for the offer. Unfortunately, I see I'm quite a distance from you. I live in northern Ohio.


If you have someone who can un-solder/re-solder, but doesn't feel as though they can tackle the repair, you can mail me the mouthpipe only (in bubble wrap, in a box)...

...but (then again) I'd think that someone who could remove it and replace it could also fix it...(??)

That aftermarket brace is so malleable, that it shouldn't be a problem to alter it to fit, if needed.
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Re: Crack in Leadpipe 20J

Postby dugh » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:13 pm

Thanks Bloke! I'll let you know. I've contacted someone about it, but I haven't heard back yet.
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