Value of larger bore 4th valve? Bookmark and Share

Re: Value of larger bore 4th valve?

Postby bloke » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:36 am

iiipopes wrote:
bloke wrote:not testable...
Therefore any theories or opinions will remain pure conjecture.

Well, it may be testable, but who wants to unsolder a perfectly good 4th valve with its circuit and encounter unnecessarily the risks of reassembly involved, if the person involved is not in the R&D department of a brass musical instrument factory?

This may be something to propose to the good folks at Wessex, as they are very careful and thorough in their R&D when developing a new model. For example, they completely re-engineered the 4th valve circuit of their 4-front-valve compensating euph after player trials and feedback.


It's not testable - not even subjectively (via gathering of opinions, which are not scientific), because the larger-bore and smaller-bore circuits could not be instantaneous interchanged on the same instrument...and (even if two same-model instruments were built with two different 4th-circuit bore sizes) - as many of us have experienced - two same-model instruments (with all of the same bore sizes and all of the same everything) can play differently - certainly differently in the "low range".
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Re: Value of larger bore 4th valve?

Postby iiipopes » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:24 pm

bloke wrote:
iiipopes wrote:
bloke wrote:not testable...
Therefore any theories or opinions will remain pure conjecture.

Well, it may be testable, but who wants to unsolder a perfectly good 4th valve with its circuit and encounter unnecessarily the risks of reassembly involved, if the person involved is not in the R&D department of a brass musical instrument factory?

This may be something to propose to the good folks at Wessex, as they are very careful and thorough in their R&D when developing a new model. For example, they completely re-engineered the 4th valve circuit of their 4-front-valve compensating euph after player trials and feedback.


It's not testable - not even subjectively (via gathering of opinions, which are not scientific), because the larger-bore and smaller-bore circuits could not be instantaneous interchanged on the same instrument...and (even if two same-model instruments were built with two different 4th-circuit bore sizes) - as many of us have experienced - two same-model instruments (with all of the same bore sizes and all of the same everything) can play differently - certainly differently in the "low range".

Re-read my post. I didn't say it was testable, I said it may be testable. The mechanical logistics, for example, a quick-release valve set, Jupiter style, might work, or something else, or it might not. From a conventional unsolder-resolder perspective, I agree with your view that it is not. That is why I suggested this may be an R&D project for a manufacturer.
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Re: Value of larger bore 4th valve?

Postby roweenie » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:19 pm

Ok, all things being equal, let's explore the actual ($) value of a larger bore 4th valve - - - -

Is this now expected by prospective buyers? Would a uniform bore through all 4 valves be a "deal-breaker" for some? (I suspect for some it might be preferred?)

(And, before someone says it, I'll add that I understand that, in the "real world", how the horn plays, of course, is most important - however, sometimes perception is just as important, if not sometimes more important...)
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Re: Value of larger bore 4th valve?

Postby bloke » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:22 am

186 C - fourth valve bore same as the rest - low range: pretty good...nothing to write home about

6/4 lap sousaphones in C - fourth valve bore larger than the rest - low range: pretty good...nothing to write home about
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Re: Value of larger bore 4th valve?

Postby roweenie » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:03 am

I've got a few BB flat 6/4 "lap sousaphones" that have exceptional "low ranges", and they all sport a .748/19mm/.750 bore 4th valve (and an .807/20.5mm bore 5th).

My rephrased "value" question is referring to marketability.
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