I want it...

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:10 am

historic value and copper notwithstanding, I think I'd rather have a real Marzan with the upward main slide.Does anyone know if the smaller piston Willson/Marzan has the upward main slide?

kegmcnabb · Post by **kegmcnabb** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:42 am

MikeMason wrote:Does anyone know if the smaller piston Willson/Marzan has the upward main slide?

Yep, it sure does. I assume you mean the horn (Solo Model) in the lower left corner of this image (courtesy TubaTinker's website...Thanks, Dan). You can see the slide on the outside edge of the tuba opposite the bell. I have one of these babies and love it. Solid, well-built, and fun to play.

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:04 am

harold wrote:Reserve not met with a current bid of $3,200?

WTF - it's not even a great horn.

Copper plating appears to be even easier than silver. My bet is that this horn is plated. It would be WAY too expensive to actually make a horn out of copper.

Think of when this horn was made.. Copper wouldn't have been as expensive then. In any case I understand that it is actually made of copper, not plated.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:27 am

dmmorris wrote:In contrast to most of the Marzan's I have seen, this one doesn't have the main tuning slide accessable from above.

.....still purty though!

That copper tuba is not a Marzan. It's a Sander. Good advertising for a fellow who was having his own name put on horns!

dmmorris · Post by **dmmorris** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:43 pm

Doh!

......slap......slap........slap.....!

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:03 pm

You know, that aluminum-plated bell looks really neat. I've never seen that on a Marzan before...

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:18 pm

the elephant wrote: It is not copper plated. It is made of copper, with lots of yellow brass and nickel silver trim. It is not rose brass. Brass IS copper with varying amounts of zinc added to get the differing hardnesses. Rose or red brass has the least added to it. Yellow has the most. Nickel silver is copper with nickel added rather than zinc. Bronze is copper with tin added instead of zinc.

Thanks for the mini metalurgy lesson. I'll remember that stuff.

How thick would the solid copper in this horn be? My experience with copper of the sort that is used for roofing is that it is pretty soft and easy to dent. Unless the copper in a solid copper tuba is really thick, I would think it would be very easy to dent.

(In college, I lived in a house that had a large copper fireplace hood- about eight feet wide and ten feet tall. Was my job to polish it every two weeks. A lot of fun mainly because it looked so good when I was finished...)

Jeff

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:28 pm

The Big Ben wrote: How thick would the solid copper in this horn be? My experience with copper of the sort that is used for roofing is that it is pretty soft and easy to dent. Unless the copper in a solid copper tuba is really thick, I would think it would be very easy to dent.

I suspect that the copper in the bell on this instrument is about the same thickness as it would be if ordinary yellow brass were being used (thicker at the bottom and thinnest near the edge of the bell flare). After all, copper, even more so than brass, work-hardens as it's being worked.

I believe that Kanstull made Howard Miyata a 21"copper bell for his big BBb. Apparently, it was not a simple job and the spoilage was quite high. Kanstul apparently says that that was the first and last copper bell that they are interested in making.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:03 pm

The Big Ben wrote:
the elephant wrote: It is not copper plated. ....
.... My experience with copper of the sort that is used for roofing is that it is pretty soft and easy to dent. Unless the copper in a solid copper tuba is really thick, I would think it would be very easy to dent.

Copper comes in a complete range of hardnesses. The base material is stil copper but the hardness changes due to how it is worked in the manufacturing process. The copper used for flashings is dead-soft. Half-hard wire is actually double-drawn so the copper is not pushed to it's yield strength. Full-hard copper wire is cold drawn directly to size. Copper can be hard to the point of being brittle. So can brass.

trseaman · Post by **trseaman** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:31 pm

bloke wrote:It is copper

Chuck(G) wrote:A reliable source told me long ago that it's really copper.

Lew wrote:In any case I understand that it is actually made of copper, not plated.

bloke wrote:It's solid copper...

the elephant wrote:It is made of copper

So what your trying to say, is that it's really made of copper???

Tim

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:50 am

I could care less about this tuba.

They won't ship the tuba outside the United States.

And if I had it sent to my mailbox in Las Vegas, the people there would charge an arm and a leg to send it to Vietnam!

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:42 am

The reserve is still not met at $4,150? Whats the point of even having a reserve price? Just start the bidding at the reserve price and save all the time and effort.

ZNC Dandy · Post by **ZNC Dandy** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:35 am

bloke wrote:
ZNC Dandy wrote:The reserve is still not met at $4,150? Whats the point of even having a reserve price? Just start the bidding at the reserve price and save all the time and effort.
Have you ever studied human psychology?

To an extent no. I guess that makes my statement null and void? Just more ignorant rantings from me I guess.

trseaman · Post by **trseaman** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:41 pm

WOW!!! Would the winning bidder please step forward...

Tim

zeign7 · Post by **zeign7** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:40 pm

I have no idea who won the tuba on ebay today, but I do know that one of the two "unknown" bidders with no feedback was the brother of a friend of mine buying the tuba for his brother as a graduation present. This same friend was a student of Fred Marzan for years when growing up in the cincinnati area. It was being bid on by him without my friend knowing and we are also curious who actually got the tuba.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:20 am

The winning bidder is no00ca5h. His feedback score is 0 (0%). Wouldn't 0 be 100% of 0? I learned in junior high algebra that you can't multiply two zeroes together...

Now you know why I studied music in school and not math.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:16 pm

The 'mystery' is over. I emailed the buyer of the copper 'Sander'. I've added some fresh information to my 'Marzan' page here:

http://thevillagetinker.com/Marzan%20Horns.htm

Congratulations, Kit!

ValveSmoke · Post by **ValveSmoke** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:16 pm

bloke wrote: bloke "Methinks tuba players/collectors have been opening up their wallets for several years, now. The guilt-ridden, tight-fisted WWII generation has vanished, and the first 'me' generation - the baby boomers - are disposing of their disposable income with glee."

Remember, that our combined national wealth is a product not only of how much money is in the economy, but also how fast that money circulates. Us baby boomers are just trying to do our part for the good of the team.

I am very excited about this new horn, but the truth is that the purchase is a ploy to convince Joe that I'm serious about mortgaging my house and first born child in order to weasel him out of his $60,000 helicon.

ValveSmoke · Post by **ValveSmoke** » Thu May 10, 2007 7:07 pm

Post mortem on the Sanders tuba.

It plays like a dream.

The intonation is excellent. The only note that I have found to be at all problematic is the low C#. It is of course sharp and with the unhandy downward facing pipes must be lipped quite a lot to get in tune. I think Dr. Marzan had the horn tweaked out in this respect. The length of the 2nd valve slide was increased about an inch in total and someone added a new 4th valve slide which is at least 8 inches longer than the orginal - also provided. Those adjustments apparently did the trick for it plays well in tune for me. {{Of course there is another theory here - if a drunk man is walking on the heaving deck of a ship in rough waters he may in fact appear to proceed without staggering. Hmmm.}}

The horn has a full bodied, rich sound and once I found the right mouthpiece combination for the horn and me, responds smoothly up and down the scale with relative ease.

It is larger than it appears. When I first received it I thought that there was no way the bore was as large as had been advertised. It in fact seemed lighter and more compact than my .689 Getzen G50. I had it measured and it was indeed about a .748 bore. The first full length gig also convinced me that the bore was quite a lot larger.

Although the bore size is similar, it is much lighter than my Marzan CC (partially due to no 5th valve, but also probably lighter alloy).

I've used it on several gigs so far and have had numerous positive responses on the sound and appearance of the horn, and I LOVE playing on a CC with the recording bell (front facing).

So far...no buyer's remorse!

Cheers,
Kit

TubeNet

I want it...

Expectant Father

Copper Sanders Tuba