11J vs. the small TA Conn BBbs

[WakinAZ]

So I've been sitting on the fence about putting in a snipe bid on this horn: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=004

I'm interested in it for my younger (10 yr old) son (older is playing 'bone). My only concern is those front-action valves being vulnerable in the elementary/middle school environment. I know these 11/12Js are well regarded, but how do the top-action Conn models of this size compare? Having those valve stems surrounded by slide and bow tubing that can take the occasional bump would put my mind at ease.

Eric "Love that slide configuration on the 11J though" L.

[MikeMason]

If it stays anywhere near the current price,you can't go wrong.You could donate it to the school for a 1.5k tax deduction and come out pretty good when your son is finished with it...

[WakinAZ]

Dang, bidding war has broken out - now up to $560 with a whole day left. I'm sure the seller is happy, but I'm out...

Anywho, any thoughts on the top-loader models vs. front-loader models for the older, smaller Conn BBbs?

Eric "cheap, with time and market supply on his side" L.

[MikeMason]

You asked for opinions,so, I'm not a fan of any top action tuba,though the new MW HOJO could change my mind.I'm of the camp that a player,especially on a 3valve horn,must be able to reach some slides,which you can't do on a top action valver(at least not conveniently).Your C's and B's will be unbearably sharp.The conn ones will be much older usually since I don't think the top action ones have been made in a very long time.The front action ones are still made,though the 11j is way out of date.All that to say,the oldest horns usually have worn,leaky valves.I know Bloke has some opinions on this from a repair standpoint. Maybe he'll chime in...

[WakinAZ]

Isn't the 11J an Abilene horn?

The serial number given puts it in the last few Elkhart years per the Conn Loyalist, which is not perfect.

Although ease of pulling slides might come into play when Dad "borrows" the horn occasionally *cough*, don't forget the primary player will be a tall-for-his-age 10 yr old.

Good point on the TA models being the oldest/most prone to leaky valves, Mike. All things considered, I'm thinking the additional risk of the front-action valves might be worth the intonation and ergonomic benefits. After all, bent stems can be fixed, but not five minutes before a concert.

Eric "who did not pull a slide until he was well out of high school" L.

[WakinAZ]

I will let time and market forces do the learnin' this guy needs to do. There are too many of these floating around for me to work very hard at getting a good deal. I guess I would probably make some kind of offer if that outer branch wasn't so fugly. Purty ain't everything, but that's a little rough even for me.

Eric "trying to keep repair costs down" L.

[WakinAZ]

So what is up on the valves on the 12J that Bob suggested? http://tinyurl.com/2v2l59 It's a 12J from 1979, but the valve caps look like a King? Was the Cyborg already in motion at that time? All the Conns I've seen have the all-metal valve caps. [Edit: had to change link, seller has re-listed, heh heh]

Eric "thinking of putting in a low-ball offer and then having it shipped to Dan S. for de-dent, etc. in the unlikely event the seller has wised up in the last week" L.

[The Big Ben]

Eric "thinking of putting in a low-ball offer and then having it shipped to Dan S. for de-dent, etc. in the unlikely event the seller has wised up in the last week" L.

I wouldn't. "Wait" is the operative word. There is another horn out there which is in better shape, at a better price. I bought a beater horn and had it rebuilt (same price/type class), thinking I was going to have a great deal but it didn't work out that way. The horn works great but, financially, I could have gotten a much better deal by waiting and finding a horn that was in better shape from the get-go.

Wait for it.

Jeff "Ability to wait is not my best feature" Benedict

[WakinAZ]

I threw a couple low-balls at them just to wake them up - declined. I think they'll have to get used to having this thing around - coming soon to a relisting near you.

Anybody have anything to say about this?:

So what is up on the valves on the 12J that Bob suggested? http://tinyurl.com/2v2l59 It's a 12J from 1979, but the valve caps look like a King? Was the Cyborg already in motion at that time? All the Conns I've seen have the all-metal valve caps. [Edit: had to change link, seller has re-listed, heh heh]

Eric "no expert, and reserving the right to ignore excellent advice" L.

[WakinAZ]

Hmm, 15J is a cyborg combo of various Conns and Kings, I believe. That one big dent is really weird looking too. Hard to tell with the blurry pix. Pass.

I think anyone who sells something on eBay should know how to dial the digital camera to Auto. Sheesh.

Thanks anyway, Bobster. How is the search for a contrabass coming?

Eric "who thinks the guy in the photos has a great future as a hand model" L.

[WakinAZ]

Good luck, sounds like the search is down to Miraphones, which definitely offer "bang for the buck", especially used.

As to the 191 tuning, a German rotary horn usually wants 1-2 combinations fingered 3 instead. Also, don't forget to tune the 4th (yes FOURTH VALVE, something new for you ) slide. I wonder if blowing through the fourth valve loop is just enough of a different experience to throw off your game.

Mouthpiece wise - c'mon you're a monster, use a big boy mp. I used a TU33 on my 187 and was pleased with the sound. Check the archives but I think these used to ship with something like a TU31. Anything Roger Lewis says about these in the archives you can bank on.

I saw a 1291 on Ebay recently, I think it was the same one TubeNetter beedeesmith was selling. Can't remember the price.

Eric "hijacking his own thread, but still wanting to know what up on those valve caps (see above posts) L.