What's it?

[ShoelessWes]

This is an 1863 Leinbach Baritone Saxhorn Tuba, that has been modified from over the shoulder rear-facing (common for th era) military playing, to upright playing.

[ShoelessWes]

aka A GREAT HORN FOR civil war reenactments.

[imperialbari]

Hard to add anything sensible after my good friends Broke & Clueless!

Looks like something pretty much inspired by the design of the ophicleide. The layout of the 3 Wiener Pumpen valves looks like being semitone, 1 whole step, and 2 while steps.

I have seen documentation of a not very large number of brasses with the semitone loop in the first valve. Most of them came out of Bavaria, but I have not seen texts on the tradition behind that layout. I don’t remember having seen the 1st valve semitone combined with 2 whole steps in the 3rd valve until now.

Klaus

[ShoelessWes]

Hard to add anything sensible after my good friends Broke & Clueless!

Looks like something pretty much inspired by the design of the ophicleide. The layout of the 3 Wiener Pumpen valves looks like being semitone, 1 whole step, and 2 while steps.

I have seen documentation of a not very large number of brasses with the semitone loop in the first valve. Most of them came out of Bavaria, but I have not seen texts on the tradition behind that layout. I don’t remember having seen the 1st valve semitone combined with 2 whole steps in the 3rd valve until now.

Klaus

I was being serious.


There is a picture of another one of these instruments in "Echoes of Glory: Arms and Equipment of The Confederacy" edited by Henry Woodhead. You are correct that they are Bavarian, but incorrect in the ophicleide aspect. The looped leadpipe is not a copy of an ophicleide, but a facilitation of replacing the tubing that was cut to change it from over the shoulder rear facing to upright.

The location of the valves here is also a big giveaway of its over the shoulder military use.

[imperialbari]

Sounded as bit of joke because the leadpipe loop maybe is an easy solution to the rebuild of an OTS baritone, but also a very vulnerable solution. To me that pointed towards an earlier stage of the development of valved brasses.

That valve placement is not unique to OTS brasses. It also was seen in post-CW American tubas never having had an OTS incarnation. I am not good at actively remembering names of makers I rarely hear about, whereas I am reasonably good at recognizing them and at telling the context where I have met the names before. I seem to remember that Roger Lewis has such an American bass tuba, which is so good a player that he uses it regularly.

This thread makes me aware about a possible connection between the rebuilt OTS brasses and another design, which had/has the same valve placement, and which also was developed for military field usage: the Tornister instruments mostly made by Cerveny. It is possible that Cerveny took inspiration from the concept presented in this thread.

Klaus

[Brown Mule]

Looks like 1st and 2nd valve have been exchanged looking at tube length???? Anyone know what's going on with that?????

[ShoelessWes]

Looks like 1st and 2nd valve have been exchanged looking at tube length???? Anyone know what's going on with that?????

Quite a bit of this in OTS equipment for the era.

[J.c. Sherman]

If this was an OTS, it's unique, or at least damn rare; I've never seen one with Vienna valves and that narrow a bore profile for a saxhorn... and by 1863 few instruments were sold anymore with the 1/2 step first valve (though some were, of course). It looks earlier then 1860 to me, but I'll accept that someone found more data than I; but the OTS proportions with the high (now upper) bow are really awkward and front heavy... and this transition would be a very poor choice of methods to convert from OTS. Where did you discover the maker's name? This looks like a typical Germanic/Prussian/Austrian instrument from the late 1840s.