lgb&dtuba wrote:Jim 'not bidding and could care less about that horn' Wagner
If only you, I, and that tuba were in the same room, you could hear just how clearly, cleanly, and sonorously that tuba can play The Clarinet Polka.
You have been digging around
Actually, I don't want my comment about not caring about that horn to be misinterpreted. It's probably a perfectly fine horn. I'm just not in the market for any horn at the moment and don't have any vested interest in what it eventually sells for, on eBay or otherwise.
harold wrote: Nothing about being a shill. These horns have a certain value and I want to do my part to make sure they stay where they should.
But, the question is:
Are you interested in protecting the value of Holton 34x tubas,
OR
Are you interested in protecting the value of your investment in your xx number of Holton 34x tubas??
harold wrote: Nothing about being a shill. These horns have a certain value and I want to do my part to make sure they stay where they should.
But, the question is:
Are you interested in protecting the value of Holton 34x tubas,
OR
Are you interested in protecting the value of your investment in your xx number of Holton 34x tubas??
That is precisely the way I was thinking about the situation. Great minds think alike...and ours too.
MartyNeilan wrote:But, the question is:
Are you interested in protecting the value of Holton 34x tubas,
OR
Are you interested in protecting the value of your investment in your xx number of Holton 34x tubas??
' moot.
Anyone who participates in an auction and is genuinely willing to PAY what they bid is welcome to bid.
bloke "not a very good analogy: but your question reminds me of the concept of 'hate crime'...A deed is a deed, regardless of motive."
What seems to be happeneing is that harold is driving the price up on the instrument in order to set a precedent. Which by doing so would establish a higher market value for his instruments. This seems to be masked behind an altruistic motive. That was evident to me as soon as I read harold's posts. It makes sense economically on harold's part. But the most important question remains, is it ethical? I would say no.
I think my problem with this concept is that it...
...takes the fun out of it (I feel like there will never be a "deal" on a 340/5 auction)
...makes eBay feel like an actual auction?
...oh yeah, takes the fun out of it. I don't have a clear image in my mind of this tuba being played by the new owner (Harold or anyone else). These beasts are fun to play, and shouldn't that be the main point of buying it?
harold wrote:This horn has a MW valve block is NOT a Holton 345. It is a 340 that has a new valve block and some new tubing.
The Ebay description lists it as a 345. This is incorrect if you are a purist.
Although the title lists it as a 345, his description clearly explains that it was a 1969 Holton 340 3 valve with a Meinl Weston valve-set installed in 2003. Who cares about the title? Any serious bidder will read the description and see that it is not originally a 345 (but I do understand why it would be considered a 345).
Somethings should just be left to die, but there is one thing here I don't understand and not knowing what Harolds' bid was and the reserve set by Mike, I'm left with one big thought and question:
If Harolds bid supposedly inflates the price of the horn, and by definition of ebay; bidding to inflate the price of an item is shill bidding......but the "shill" bid never meets the reserve.....hang with me here a moment cause I figure I must obviously be missing something.....
How can a bid be a shill bid if it never cracks the reserve?
Rob "please excuse me if I didn't understand this, or if his bid did pass the reserve" McCarty
And Doc, if the beer is going to be a good, dark German one, I'm in!
Rob wrote:
How can a bid be a shill bid if it never cracks the reserve?
If you know what the reserve price is and bid to the point where the next bid will match the reserve, it could be looked at as a shill bid....but only when you consider that the shill bid only got the item to the reserve price quicker (or gave the illusion of higher demand when there was really none). Ultimately, the final bidder bid what they wanted to pay no matter how long it took the bid to get to that point.
Marzan BBb
John Packer JP-274 euphonium
King 607F Posting and You
Doc wrote:It seems to me that this is all bullshit anyway. If harold wants to pay XXXX for the horn, that's his business. To him, it has XXXX value, whereas, to some others, it may not have the same value. And some people bitch about it out of pure jealousy (harold is blessed to have the ability to buy horns like he does). If I see something, and I really want it, I may pay more than the next guy since it has particular value to me. Why I see value or what that value is exactly is nobody's business but my own, and everyone else can screw off.
Agreed... Guess the question should be why Harold feels he needs to announce that he's bidding. What does that accomplish and who cares??? I don't see that Harold is protecting prices by bidding them higher. It will still sell for what someone is willing to pay, regardless of what Harold does...
trseaman wrote:Agreed... Guess the question should be why Harold feels he needs to announce that he's bidding. What does that accomplish and who cares???
Chuck(G) wrote:I looked at his post as being akin to this:
...but I could be mistaken.
Bullseye!
Mike, IT IS all about your horn and thanks to Harold it's getting some extra publicity. It's a great looking horn and there's no reason why it shouldn't sell... Goodluck!
