TubeNet

> We appreciate that you chose eBay to list the following auction-style
> listing(s):
>
> NWT LEI JEANS size 1 small Old Navy shirt
>
>
> However, your listing was in violation of eBay's Paypal Payments
> policy and has been removed from eBay. We have credited all
> associated fees to your account and notified eBay users associated
> with the transaction that it has been cancelled.
>
> We would like to take this opportunity to let you know what part of
> your listing is not permitted.
>
> Your listing(s) contains the following information:
>
> paypal payment by BANK ACCOUNT TRANSFER ONLY
>
>
>
> Sellers who offer PayPal as a payment option in the listing process
> must accept all forms of PayPal payment, without restriction.
>
> For example, it is *not* permitted to state:
>
> "I only accept cash transfers with PayPal (no credit cards)"
> "I only accept payments with PayPal over $15"
>
> Sellers must have a Premier or Business PayPal Account or be willing
> to upgrade from a Personal PayPal Account to a Premier or Business
> Account if sellers receive a credit card payment. Sellers may not
> communicate to buyers that they accept, or will not accept, specific
> forms of PayPal payment.
>
> Please be aware that you are not required to use PayPal as an accepted
> form of payment for your listings. However, we hope that you will
> realize the protection and convenience that PayPal offers.
> For more information on Paypal Payments visit the following Help
> page:http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/pay ... ments.html
>
>
>
> Please note: violation of this or other eBay policies may result in
> forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings, limits on account
> privileges and account suspension.
>
>
> Please review eBay's Listing Policies and User Agreement at the
> following locations:
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/policies.html
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html
>
> For more information on why eBay removes auction-style listings, or to
> write to us with questions, please review the following Web page:
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/l ... ended.html
>
> We thank you in advance for your cooperation.
>
> Regards,
>
> eBay Trust & Safety

...sounds vaguely political

Honestly, Sean, I don't see your problem. Youi're not obliged to use either PayPal or eBay to sell your stuff. EBay owns PayPal and has a perfect right to set whatever restrictions they desire for its use.

I appreciate PayPal, even if the vigorish seems to be a bit much at times.

Sean,
If you are worried about the sizeable cut PayPal takes for credit cards, just overcharge on the shipping by a couple dollars like some do.
That will cover PayPal fees, EBay fees, your gas to the post office, electricity to power the computer....


Marty "who tries to charge accurate shipping but would rather overestimate than underestimate after losing money on auctions"

WoodSheddin wrote:>Pinko Commy eBay PayPal pirating scum suckers

Feels good to be able to go to a community of friends and speak freely, without worry that you'll be judged or censored, doesn't it?
________________________________
Joe Baker, who wishes he had a place where HE could do that....

Joe Baker wrote:

WoodSheddin wrote:>Pinko Commy eBay PayPal pirating scum suckers

Feels good to be able to go to a community of friends and speak freely, without worry that you'll be judged or censored, doesn't it?
________________________________
Joe Baker, who wishes he had a place where HE could do that....

Henry wrote:One of those rules of life; the site administrator gets to determine what's allowed to be posted on their site.......

I don't get it. This is not about politics. This is about eBay changing the rules once they bought PayPal. Before you could opt out of accepting credit cards and save money. Now you gotta not only pay the listing fees and sales commission to eBay, but you also get to pay 3% on top of that to eBay for the PayPal transfer.

By refusing to accept credit card payment I would loose out on some potential buyers, but am willing to take that risk. I always saw the 3% surcharged merchant accounts as part of the priviledge to accept credit cards. This surcharge was tacked on by PayPal because credit card companies charge PayPal a fee to process the charge. Bank transfers cost nothing. In fact while the money sits in PayPal's bank they are making interest off of it at a higher rate than the tiny amount they pass on.

I just think the policy sucks. Now I have to setup two seperate PayPal accounts. One for eBay stuff which has an extra 3% lopped off the top and the usual one used for TubeNet Sponsors who help cover the expenses of hosting TubeNet which will not accept credit cards.

Chuck(G) wrote:Honestly, Sean, I don't see your problem. Youi're not obliged to use either PayPal or eBay to sell your stuff. EBay owns PayPal and has a perfect right to set whatever restrictions they desire for its use.

I never claimed what they are doing is illegal, just that it was a business decision which is nearsighted.

That's just the American Way. Get a monopoly and squeeze 'em by the b@lls Why? Because they can...

I had some issues with Ebay last year and they just plain refused to work with me... The more I tried to resolve the issue the further they buried their head in the sand. Really got to me for a while unitl I accepted that it is their webpage and they can choose to do what they want without thought or concern about the thoughts of others. You have to either follow by their rules or you won't get to play...

trseaman wrote:...Really got to me for a while unitl I accepted that it is their webpage and they can choose to do what they want without thought or concern about the thoughts of others. You have to either follow by their rules or you won't get to play...

Like TubeNet.
______________________________
Joe Baker, who follows the rules, but wishes they would change.

WoodSheddin wrote:I don't get it. This is not about politics.

A lot of the stuff that has been locked and tossed wasn't about politics any more than a lot of things that were left alone. There've been discussions of race, economics, culture -- simple discussions of how things are/how they should be. I'm often astonished to see which topics are cut and which are not.

I apologize for the way this must sound: like I'm coming into your place and trying to tell you how to run it. I DO intend to make a case for allowing broader latitude for discussion, but unless and until you do I'll follow the rules. And I do appreciate that this forum exists; I just wish I didn't have to bite my tongue so often.

FWIW, I see politics in musical instruments from China. I see it in student loans. I see it in union contracts and public funding of orchestras. I just don't see any problem with discussing them.
_________________________________
Joe Baker, who figgers EVERYTHING is politics, when you get right down to it.

Joe Baker wrote:

WoodSheddin wrote:I don't get it. This is not about politics.

A lot of the stuff that has been locked and tossed wasn't about politics any more than a lot of things that were left alone.

If something seems obvious and is left alone it is most likely cause I just did not read it. I only read a portion of the stuff posted due to time and lack of interest in a lot of it. If something is off base I have with some consistancy received a message with the URL and I have dealt with them. Just let me know if something has gotten out of hand and has not been addressed in a timely manner.

Stuff that is locked or hidden is usually an effort to prevent counterproductive shouting matches. Other times a post you make is hidden not because of your particular content but because of other factors which I am rarely secretive about when approached on the side. If in doubt on a specific topic feel free to fire me an IM or email.

In general though, the main purpose of the website was for musical discussions related to the tuba and euphonium. The extra fluff which has come along especially since the move a couple of years ago to the new software was due to me opening up unrelated topic areas for people to discuss fluff. This includes my eBay rant. I am also guilty of junk posts at times.

What I do not believe you will ever see is posts related honestly to music as it relates to the tuba or euphonium being pulled. An example would be a discussion about how wonderful Yamaha tubas are. Although a very difficult decision, I would not pull that thread.

Lastly, I am fallible. If I make a judgement based on misinterpretation then I would like the opportunity to correct it. That is what the feedback forum and email and IM is for.

What I don't want to happen is for people to use the forum to say things to each other they would not say in live social situations. There are human beings behind the words typed here and each individual deserves some dignity.

WoodSheddin wrote:

Chuck(G) wrote:Honestly, Sean, I don't see your problem. Youi're not obliged to use either PayPal or eBay to sell your stuff. EBay owns PayPal and has a perfect right to set whatever restrictions they desire for its use.

I never claimed what they are doing is illegal, just that it was a business decision which is nearsighted.

Let's see, Sean, there's eBay and then there's, um, uh, actually nobody who even comes close to the exposure that you get. eBay's virtually a monopoly and, like most monopolies, can pretty much charge whatever they think the traffic will bear.

Yeah, I remember when Paypal was x.com and they paid you $20 for just signing up. The business about "how can we do this? We work off the float " nonsense.

FWIW, our merchant card services charges us about 2.5% AND an annual service fee. 3% isn't a bad deal--cruise the web looking for merchant card services for small businesses and you'll see rates much higher than 3%.

If you're looking for consumer electronics, etc. uBid isn't bad--mostly factory-refurb stuff with manufacturer's warranties. I've yet to get stung there.

My first attempt at auctioning off my Conn tuba was halted much the same as your auction, Sean. Why? Because I happened to mention that if someone wanted to wire money directly into my bank account as a means of payment, the BANK WOULD PROBABLY CHARGE THEM A FEE for doing so. They caught the tag word "Fee", put an end to the auction and accused me of circumventing paying eBay fees! I blasted them for their stupidity (I'm sure they couldn't have cared less) and relisted.

bloke wrote: I would compare this to "zoning"...like my brick-and-mortar music store being in place (having established a clientele, goodwill, etc.) and suddenly a whorehouse goes up right next door (etc.).

Gee, Bloke - that would be a selling point for me! Being able to visit both places and kill two birds with one stone, so to speak...or maybe something about a bird or a hand in a bush? But anyhow, I digress.

Thanks for the heads-up Bloke!

Can we park in front of your brick and mortar shop? I don't want anyone seeing me parked in front of the whorehouse...

tubahed wrote:or maybe something about a bird or a hand in a bush?

Sorry, but your id is now being cancelled because our politics-detector-program (is that like a cat-detector-van?) has flagged the use of the word "Bush" in your post... please surrender all valves and have your account clean by 18:00 this evening!

Remember when it was just AT&T? They used to have a saying at AT&T: "If you don't like our service, you can switch to the other phone company."

Then there was the break up. My phone service was switched to U.S. West. (And I thought AT&T was bad.) Then U.S. Worst, said: "If you don't like our service, you can switch to the other phone company."

And guess what. A few years later, I was able to and I did.

What has this got to do with ebay. Well, nothing really. Except that if Sean waits a few years, he may be able to sell stuff on some other auction site. Perhaps, Southern Ebay or Northwestern Ebay or Standard Oil of Ebay.

And...

Just so you don't think I am completely nuts. The Standard Oil reference in my previous post got me to thinking about Exxon-Mobil and the ATT + SBC deal. Anyone else see a trend here?

By the way, even if you think big oil is the ultimate evil (it's not), make sure you read The Prize by Daniel Yergen. This is a fascinating book.

N.B. K-Mart bought Sears and IBM doesn't make PCs anymore. Next thing you know Japan will be making better luxury cars than Germany and China will be making quality tubas. What is the world coming to?

One more thing...

WoodSheddin wrote:Pinko Commy eBay PayPal pirating scum suckers

Isn't commy spelled commie?

My personal preference for an economic epithet is commie fascist pig. It's more encompassing and less discriminatory.