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Sadly, as Joe mentions, this horn would require a bit of left hand work to deal with normal contemporary band and orchestra literature. However, some of these 4V CC tubas play unbelievably well, due to a decrease in weight and a bit less restriction in the valveset. It is of the "good" vintage of 186's. If someone were looking for a starting CC that they would be willing to "upgrade" down the road, this would be a pretty decent buy.

However, I am guessing that the "real" price of adding the 5th in a factory look-alike manner would be a $1500 payment (even though Joe won't say it) . That puts the horn at about $4K overall, and still an okay price, but no real deal. If this horn were listed with a "buy it now" of $2K, it would be gone. Someone could put the valve and do the cosmetics and get it out on the market for about $3900 and get it sold. While there are no guarantees as to how a tuba plays, you can be pretty certain that a Mirafone 186 CC of this vintage will be a pretty damn decent instrument.

Thing ya gotta remember is that Joe don' work for free.

If *I* bought the horn for my use and had Joe make the repairs and changes needed, it might be a good deal for me. However, Joe's selling price also has to show some profit. It would be the amount I would pay for the horn and its repairs plus Joe's profit. He wants to make more than wages if he's investing his own money.

Right, Bloke?

The Big Ben wrote:Thing ya gotta remember is that Joe don' work for free.

If *I* bought the horn for my use and had Joe make the repairs and changes needed, it might be a good deal for me.

Or it might not...

Point is, a reseller needs to put a reasonable profit on top of costs. Sometimes it might be a good deal to buy a horn and have it fixed for personal use where it wouldn't be reasonable to do it for resale. In this case, it would make sense to get it for personal use if the player can do without a 5th valve- just like Bloke says. Doin' the math, it's $3400 all tuned up but basically as it sits.

Not to mention that the new 186 will have the larger and (IMO) blander bell. I am not too sure what you imply with the "70s intonation" comment, but many of the 'Fones from this period have a solid scale (+/- 5 cents at most). I guess I was being a bit optimistic at $3900. Regardless, a restored-to-good condition 70's vintage 186 with the response, ease of play, and good tone that they were known for should be worth close to $5K. The problem is the continuous flow of "fad" horns that circulate for $5-8K on the Tubernet. Why buy a nice 186 when you can pick up a 2145 in decent shape for $6K? I'd probably prefer the 186, but I know a lot of people would pick up the 2145 because it is newer tuba technology.

That sounds about right, especially the E/Eb in the staff. If anyone is interested, I'm selling my 1974 186 5U in the For Sale section. The quality of tone matches up to the descriptions listed above...and definitely looks better than the horn on eBay

Joseph